Please have a seat, everybody. Good morning. I thought it might make sense to take some questions this week, as my first term comes to an end. 请大家就座。早上好。我想在我的第一任期即将结束之际，本周回答一些问题是合适的。
It’s been a busy and productive four years. And I expect the same for the next four years. I intend to carry out the agenda that I campaigned on -- an agenda for new jobs, new opportunity, and new security for the middle class. 这是忙碌而富有成效的四年。我期望接下来的四年也是如此。我打算推行我在竞选中提出的议程——一个旨在创造新就业、新机会和中产阶级新保障的议程。
Right now, our economy is growing, and our businesses are creating new jobs, so we are poised for a good year if we make smart decisions and sound investments -- and as long as Washington politics don’t get in the way of America’s progress. 目前，我们的经济正在增长，我们的企业正在创造新的就业岗位，因此只要我们做出明智的决策和稳健的投资——只要华盛顿的政治不阻碍美国的进步——我们就为美好的一年做好了准备。
As I said on the campaign, one component to growing our economy and broadening opportunity for the middle class is shrinking our deficits in a balanced and responsible way. And for nearly two years now, I’ve been fighting for such a plan -- one that would reduce our deficits by $4 trillion over the next decade, which would stabilize our debt and our deficit in a sustainable way for the next decade. 正如我在竞选中所说，发展经济和扩大中产阶级机会的一个方面，是以平衡和负责任的方式缩小我们的赤字。近两年来，我一直在为这样一个方案而奋斗——一个在未来十年减少4万亿美元赤字的方案，这将使我们的债务和赤字在未来十年以可持续的方式稳定下来。
That would be enough not only to stop the growth of our debt relative to the size of our economy, but it would make it manageable so it doesn’t crowd out the investments we need to make in people and education and job training and science and medical research -- all the things that help us grow. 这不仅足以阻止我们的债务相对于经济规模的增长，还能使其变得可控，从而不会挤占我们在人民、教育、职业培训、科学和医学研究方面所需的投资——所有这些帮助我们发展的方面。
Now, step by step, we’ve made progress towards that goal. Over the past two years, I’ve signed into law about $1.4 trillion in spending cuts. Two weeks ago, I signed into law more than $600 billion in new revenue by making sure the wealthiest Americans begin to pay their fair share. When you add the money that we’ll save in interest payments on the debt, all together that adds up to a total of about $2.5 trillion in deficit reduction over the past two years -- not counting the $400 billion already saved from winding down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. 现在，我们正逐步向这一目标迈进。过去两年，我已将约1.4万亿美元的支出削减签署成法。两周前，通过确保最富有的美国人开始支付他们应承担的份额，我签署了超过6000亿美元的新收入法案。加上我们将节省的债务利息支出，合计起来过去两年总共实现了约2.5万亿美元的赤字削减——这还不包括从结束伊拉克和阿富汗战争中已节省的4000亿美元。
So we've made progress. We are moving towards our ultimate goal of getting to a $4 trillion reduction. And there will be more deficit reduction when Congress decides what to do about the $1.2 trillion in automatic spending cuts that have been pushed off until next month. 因此我们已取得进展。我们正朝着实现4万亿美元削减的最终目标迈进。当国会决定如何处理被推迟到下个月的1.2万亿美元自动支出削减时，还将有更多的赤字削减。
The fact is, though, we can’t finish the job of deficit reduction through spending cuts alone. The cuts we’ve already made to priorities other than Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and defense mean that we spend on everything from education to public safety less as a share of our economy than it has -- than has been true for a generation. And that’s not a recipe for growth. 然而事实是，我们无法仅通过削减支出完成赤字削减的任务。我们已对Medicare、Medicaid、Social Security和国防以外的优先项目进行了削减，这意味着我们在从教育到公共安全的所有方面，支出占经济的比重低于过去一代人的水平。这不是促进增长的良方。
So we’ve got to do more both to stabilize our finances over the medium and long term, but also spur more growth in the short term. I’ve said I’m open to making modest adjustments to programs like Medicare to protect them for future generations. I’ve also said that we need more revenue through tax reform by closing loopholes in our tax code for the wealthiest Americans. 因此我们必须在更多方面努力，既要在中长期稳定我们的财政，又要在短期内促进更多增长。我曾表示愿意对Medicare等计划进行适度调整，以保护它们惠及后代。我也曾说过，我们需要通过税收改革，堵塞税法中为最富有的美国人提供的漏洞，以获得更多收入。
If we combine a balanced package of savings from spending on health care and revenues from closing loopholes, we can solve the deficit issue without sacrificing our investments in things like education that are going to help us grow. 如果我们将医疗支出节省和堵塞漏洞获得的收入结合起来，组成一个平衡的一揽子方案，我们就能够在不牺牲教育等有助于我们增长的投资的情况下解决赤字问题。
It turns out the American people agree with me. They listened to an entire year’s debate over this issue, and they made a clear decision about the approach they prefer. They don’t think it’s fair, for example, to ask a senior to pay more for his or her health care, or a scientist to shut down lifesaving research so that a multimillionaire investor can pay less in tax rates than a secretary. 事实证明美国人民同意我的看法。他们聆听了一整年关于这个问题的辩论，并对自己偏好的方案做出了明确选择。例如，他们认为要求老年人支付更多医疗费用，或要求科学家关闭拯救生命的研究，好让百万富翁投资者缴纳比秘书更低的税率，这是不公平的。
They don’t think it’s smart to protect endless corporate loopholes and tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans rather than rebuild our roads and our schools, invest in our workers’ skills, or help manufacturers bring jobs back to America. So they want us to get our books in order in a balanced way, where everybody pulls their weight, everyone does their part. 他们认为保护无穷无尽的企业漏洞和最富有美国人的税收优惠，而不去重建我们的道路和学校、投资我们工人的技能、或帮助制造商将就业机会带回美国，这是不明智的。因此他们希望我们以平衡的方式理顺账目，让每个人都承担自己的责任，每个人都尽自己的一份力。
That's what I want as well. That's what I've proposed. And we can get it done, but we're going to have to make sure that people are looking at this in a responsible way rather than just through the lens of politics. 这也是我所期望的。这就是我所提出的方案。我们可以做到，但我们必须确保人们以负责任的方式看待这件事，而不仅仅从政治的角度出发。
Now, the other congressionally imposed deadline coming up is the so-called debt ceiling -- something most Americans hadn’t even heard of before two years ago. I want to be clear about this. The debt ceiling is not a question of authorizing more spending. Raising the debt ceiling does not authorize more spending. It simply allows the country to pay for spending that Congress has already committed to. These are bills that have already been racked up and we need to pay them. 现在，即将到来的另一个由国会设定的期限是所谓的债务上限——两年前大多数美国人甚至没有听说过这个词。我想澄清这一点。债务上限不是授权更多支出的问题。提高债务上限并不授权更多支出。它只是允许国家支付国会已经承诺的支出。这些是已经产生的账单，我们需要支付它们。
So while I’m willing to compromise and find common ground over how to reduce our deficits, America cannot afford another debate with this Congress about whether or not they should pay the bills they’ve already racked up. 虽然我愿意就如何减少赤字妥协并寻找共同点，但美国无法承受与本届国会就是否应该支付已经产生的账单进行又一场辩论。
If congressional Republicans refuse to pay America’s bills on time, Social Security checks and veterans’ benefits will be delayed. We might not be able to pay our troops, or honor our contracts with small business owners. Food inspectors, air traffic controllers, specialists who track down loose nuclear material wouldn’t get their paychecks. Investors around the world will ask if the United States of America is, in fact, a safe bet. Markets could go haywire. 如果国会共和党人拒绝按时支付美国的账单，Social Security支票和退伍军人福利将会延迟。我们可能无法向军队支付薪酬，或履行与小企业主的合同。食品检查员、空中交通管制员、追踪松散核材料的专业人员将拿不到工资。世界各地的投资者将会质疑美利坚合众国是否还是一个安全的选择。市场可能会陷入混乱。
Interest rates would spike for anybody who borrows money -- every homeowner with a mortgage, every student with a college loan, every small business owner who wants to grow and hire. It would be a self-inflicted wound on the economy. It would slow down our growth, might tip us into recession, and ironically, would probably increase our deficit. 利率将会飙升，影响每一个借钱的人——每个有房贷的房主、每个有大学贷款的学生、每个想要扩张和招聘的小企业主。这将是对经济的自我伤害。它会减缓我们的增长，可能使我们陷入衰退，而且讽刺的是，反而可能增加我们的赤字。
So to even entertain the idea of this happening -- of the United States of America not paying its bills -- is irresponsible. It’s absurd. As the Speaker said two years ago, it would be -- and I'm quoting Speaker Boehner now -- “a financial disaster, not only for us, but for the worldwide economy.” 因此，即使是考虑这种可能性——美利坚合众国不支付其账单——也是不负责任的。这是荒谬的。正如议长两年前所说——我现在引用Boehner议长的话——「一场金融灾难，不仅对我们，对全球经济也是如此。」
So we've got to pay our bills. And Republicans in Congress have two choices here: They can act responsibly, and pay America’s bills; or they can act irresponsibly, and put America through another economic crisis. But they will not collect a ransom in exchange for not crashing the American economy. The financial well-being of the American people is not leverage to be used. The full faith and credit of the United States of America is not a bargaining chip. 因此我们必须支付我们的账单。国会共和党人在这里有两个选择：他们可以负责任地行事，支付美国的账单；或者他们可以不负责任地行事，让美国经历又一场经济危机。但他们不会通过不搞垮美国经济来勒索赎金。美国人民的财务福祉不是可以被利用的筹码。美国的充分信任和信用不是讨价还价的筹码。
And they better choose quickly, because time is running short. The last time Republicans in Congress even flirted with this idea, our AAA credit rating was downgraded for the first time in our history; our businesses created the fewest jobs of any month in nearly the past three years; and, ironically, the whole fiasco actually added to the deficit. 他们最好尽快做出选择，因为时间所剩无几。上次国会共和党人甚至只是暗示这种想法时，我们的AAA信用评级历史上首次被下调；我们的企业创造了近三年来任何月份中最少的就业岗位；而且讽刺的是，整场闹剧实际上反而增加了赤字。
So it shouldn’t be surprising, given all this talk, that the American people think Washington is hurting, rather than helping, the country at the moment. They see their representatives consumed with partisan brinksmanship over paying our bills, while they overwhelmingly want us to focus on growing the economy and creating more jobs. 因此，鉴于这一切言论，美国人民认为华盛顿此刻正在损害而非帮助国家，这并不令人意外。他们看到自己的代表们在支付账单问题上沉溺于党派边缘政策，而他们绝大多数人希望我们专注于发展经济和创造更多就业。
So let’s finish this debate. Let’s give our businesses and the world the certainty that our economy and our reputation are still second to none. We pay our bills. We handle our business. And then we can move on -- because America has a lot to do. We’ve got to create more jobs. We've got to boost the wages of those who have work. We’ve got to reach for energy independence. We've got to reform our immigration system. We’ve got to give our children the best education possible, and we've got to do everything we can to protect them from the horrors of gun violence. 那么让我们结束这场辩论。让我们的企业和全世界确信，我们的经济和声誉依然首屈一指。我们支付账单。我们处理我们的事务。然后我们可以继续前进——因为美国还有很多事情要做。我们需要创造更多就业。我们需要提高有工作者的工资。我们需要追求能源独立。我们需要改革我们的移民制度。我们需要给我们的孩子最好的教育，我们需要尽一切努力保护他们免受枪支暴力的恐怖。
And let me say I’m grateful to Vice President Biden for his work on this issue of gun violence and for his proposals, which I'm going to be reviewing today and I will address in the next few days and I intend to vigorously pursue. 让我还要说，我感谢Biden副总统在枪支暴力问题上的工作和他提出的建议，我今天将审阅这些建议，并将在未来几天内予以回应，我打算大力推进。
So, with that, I'm going to take some questions. And I'm going to start with Julie Pace of AP. And I want to congratulate Julie for this new, important job. 那么，接下来我将回答一些问题。我将从美联社的Julie Pace开始。我想祝贺Julie获得这个新的重要职位。
Question: Thank you very much. Question: 非常感谢。
President Obama: Yes. President Obama: 是的。
Question: I wanted to ask about gun violence. Today marks the one-year -- or one-month anniversary of the shooting in Newtown, which seemed to generate some momentum for reinstating the assault weapons ban. But there’s been fresh opposition to that ban from the NRA. And even Harry Reid has said that he questions whether it could pass Congress. Given that, how hard will you push for an assault weapons ban? And if one cannot pass Congress, what other measures would need to be included in a broad package in order to curb gun violence successfully? Question: 我想问关于枪支暴力的问题。今天标志着纽敦枪击事件一周年——或一个月纪念日，这事件似乎为恢复攻击性武器禁令带来了一些动力。但NRA对该禁令提出了新的反对。甚至Harry Reid也表示他质疑该禁令能否在国会通过。鉴于此，您将多大力推动攻击性武器禁令？如果禁令无法在国会通过，还需要在广泛的一揽子方案中纳入哪些其他措施才能成功遏制枪支暴力？
President Obama: Well, as I said, the Vice President and a number of members of my Cabinet went through a very thorough process over the last month, meeting with a lot of stakeholders in this including the NRA, listened to proposals from all quarters, and they’ve presented me now with a list of sensible, common-sense steps that can be taken to make sure that the kinds of violence we saw at Newtown doesn't happen again. President Obama: 正如我所说，副总统和我内阁的许多成员在过去一个月里经历了一个非常周密的过程，与包括NRA在内的许多利益相关方会面，听取了各方提案，他们现在向我提交了一份明智的、常识性的步骤清单，可以采取这些步骤确保我们在纽敦看到的那种暴力不会再次发生。
I’m going to be meeting with the Vice President today. I expect to have a fuller presentation later in the week to give people some specifics about what I think we need to do. 我今天将与副总统会面。我预计本周晚些时候会有更全面的说明，让人们了解我认为我们需要做些什么的具体内容。
My starting point is not to worry about the politics; my starting point is to focus on what makes sense, what works; what should we be doing to make sure that our children are safe and that we’re reducing the incidents of gun violence. And I think we can do that in a sensible way that comports with the Second Amendment. 我的出发点不是担心政治；我的出发点是关注什么是有意义的，什么是有效的；我们应该做什么来确保我们的孩子安全，减少枪支暴力事件。我认为我们可以以一种符合第二修正案的明智方式做到这一点。
And then members of Congress I think are going to have to have a debate and examine their own conscience -- because if, in fact -- and I believe this is true -- everybody across party lines was as deeply moved and saddened as I was by what happened in Newtown, then we’re going to have to vote based on what we think is best. We’re going to have to come up with answers that set politics aside. And that's what I expect Congress to do. 然后我认为国会议员们将不得不进行一场辩论并审视自己的良知——因为如果事实上——我相信这是真的——跨党派的每个人都和我一样被纽敦发生的事情深深触动和悲痛，那么我们就必须根据我们认为最好的方案来投票。我们将不得不提出抛开政治的答案。这就是我期望国会所做的。
But what you can count is, is that the things that I’ve said in the past -- the belief that we have to have stronger background checks, that we can do a much better job in terms of keeping these magazine clips with high capacity out of the hands of folks who shouldn’t have them, an assault weapons ban that is meaningful -- that those are things I continue to believe make sense. 但你可以指望的是，我过去说过的事情——即我们必须有更严格的背景审查，我们在阻止高容量弹匣落入不应拥有者手中方面可以做得更好，一个有意义的攻击性武器禁令——这些都是我继续认为合理的。
Will all of them get through this Congress? I don’t know. But what’s uppermost in my mind is making sure that I’m honest with the American people and with members of Congress about what I think will work, what I think is something that will make a difference. And to repeat what I’ve said earlier -- if there is a step we can take that will save even one child from what happened in Newtown, we should take that step. 这些措施是否都能在本届国会通过？我不知道。但我心中最重要的是确保我对美国人民和国会议员诚实，告诉他们我认为什么会有效，什么会产生影响。重复我之前说过的话——如果我们能采取一个步骤，哪怕只拯救一个孩子免遭纽敦那样的悲剧，我们就应该采取这个步骤。
Question: Can a package be discussed to allow an assault weapons ban? Question: 能否讨论一揽子方案以纳入攻击性武器禁令？
President Obama: I’ll present the details later in the week. President Obama: 我会在本周晚些时候公布细节。
Chuck Todd, NBC. Chuck Todd，NBC。
Question: Thank you, sir. As you know, the Senate Democrats, Harry Reid sent you a letter begging you, essentially, to take -- consider some sort of executive action on this debt ceiling issue. I know you’ve said you’re not negotiating on it. Your administration has ruled out the various ideas that have been out there -- the 14th Amendment. But just this morning, one of the House Democratic leaders, Jim Clyburn, asked you to use the 14th Amendment and even said, sometimes that’s what it takes. Question: 谢谢您，先生。如您所知，参议院民主党人Harry Reid给您发了一封信，基本上是恳求您采取——考虑就债务上限问题采取某种行政行动。我知道您说过您不会就此进行谈判。您的政府已经排除了各种已经提出的想法——第十四修正案。
He brought up the Emancipation Proclamation as saying it took executive action when Congress wouldn’t act, and he compared the debt ceiling to that. So are you considering a plan B, and if not, why not? 但就在今天早上，众议院民主党领袖之一Jim Clyburn要求您使用第十四修正案，甚至说有时候这就是需要的。他提到了《解放黑人奴隶宣言》，说当国会不采取行动时需要行政行动，他将债务上限与之相比。那么您是否在考虑B计划，如果不是，为什么？
President Obama: Well, Chuck, the issue here is whether or not America pays its bills. We are not a deadbeat nation. And so there’s a very simple solution to this: Congress authorizes us to pay our bills. President Obama: 嗯，Chuck，这里的问题是美国是否支付其账单。我们不是一个赖账的国家。因此有一个非常简单的解决方案：国会授权我们支付我们的账单。
Now, if the House and the Senate want to give me the authority so that they don’t have to take these tough votes, if they want to put the responsibility on me to raise the debt ceiling, I’m happy to take it. Mitch McConnell, the Republican Leader in the Senate, had a proposal like that last year, and I’m happy to accept it. But if they want to keep this responsibility, then they need to go ahead and get it done. 现在，如果众议院和参议院想给我授权，这样他们就不必投这些艰难的票，如果他们想让我承担提高债务上限的责任，我很乐意接受。参议院共和党领袖Mitch McConnell去年就有一个类似的提案，我很乐意接受。但如果他们想保留这个责任，那么他们就需要去完成它。
And there are no magic tricks here. There are no loopholes. There are no easy outs. This is a matter of Congress authorizes spending. They order me to spend. They tell me, you need to fund our Defense Department at such and such a level; you need to send out Social Security checks; you need to make sure that you are paying to care for our veterans. They lay all this out for me because they have the spending power. And so I am required by law to go ahead and pay these bills. 这里没有什么魔术手法。没有漏洞。没有简单的出路。这是国会授权支出的问题。他们命令我支出。他们告诉我，你需要在某某水平上为国防部提供资金；你需要寄出Social Security支票；你需要确保你在为我们的退伍军人支付护理费用。
Separately, they also have to authorize the raising of the debt ceiling in order to make sure that those bills are paid. And so, what Congress can't do is tell me to spend X, and then say, but we're not going to give you the authority to go ahead and pay the bills. 他们把所有这些都列出来给我，因为他们拥有支出的权力。因此我在法律上有义务去支付这些账单。
And I just want to repeat -- because I think sometimes the American people, understandably, aren't following all the debates here in Washington -- raising the debt ceiling does not authorize us to spend more. All it does is say that America will pay its bills. And we are not a dead-beat nation. And the consequences of us not paying our bills, as I outlined in my opening statement, would be disastrous. 另外，他们还必须授权提高债务上限，以确保这些账单得到支付。因此，国会不能做的是告诉我支出X，然后说，但我们不给你授权去支付这些账单。
So I understand the impulse to try to get around this in a simple way. But there's one way to get around this. There's one way to deal with it. And that is for Congress to authorize me to pay for those items of spending that they have already authorized. 我只想再重复一次——因为我认为美国人民有时候可以理解地并不关注华盛顿这里的所有辩论——提高债务上限并不授权我们花更多钱。它只是表示美国将支付其账单。我们不是一个赖账的国家。而如我在开场白中所述，我们不支付账单的后果将是灾难性的。
And the notion that Republicans in the House, or maybe some Republicans in the Senate, would suggest that “in order for us to get our way on our spending priorities, that we would risk the full faith and credit of the United States” -- that I think is not what the Founders intended. That's not how I think most Americans think our democracy should work. They've got a point of view; Democrats in Congress have a point of view. They need to sit down and work out a compromise. 因此我理解想要以简单方式绕过这个问题的冲动。但只有一种方法可以绕过这个问题。只有一种方法可以处理它。那就是国会授权我支付他们已经授权的那些支出项目。
Question: You just outlined an entire rationale for why this can't happen. 众议院共和党人，或者也许是参议院的一些共和党人，竟然暗示「为了在我们的支出优先事项上如愿以偿，我们愿意拿美国的充分信任和信用去冒险」——我认为这不是建国先辈们的本意。我认为这不是大多数美国人所认为的民主应该运作的方式。他们有自己的观点；国会民主党人也有自己的观点。他们需要坐下来达成妥协。
President Obama: Yes. Question: 您刚才概述了为什么这不会发生的完整理由。
Question: And if -- then if -- and you're not negotiating on the debt ceiling. President Obama: 是的。
President Obama: Yes. Question: 如果——那么如果——而且您不会在债务上限上进行谈判。
Question: So you're not negotiating and they say you have to negotiate, and you're not considering another plan B, then do you just wait it out and we do go -- we do see all these things happen? President Obama: 是的。
President Obama: Well look, Chuck, there are -- there's a pretty straightforward way of doing this and that is to set the debt ceiling aside, we pay our bills, and then we have a vigorous debate about how we're going to do further deficit reduction in a balanced way. Question: 那么您不谈判，而他们说您必须谈判，您也不考虑其他B计划，那您是就这么等着，然后我们确实——我们确实看到所有这些事情发生吗？
Keep in mind that what we've heard from some Republicans in both the House and the Senate is that they will only increase the debt ceiling by the amount of spending cuts that they're able to push through and -- in order to replace the automatic spending cuts of the sequester -- that's $1.2 trillion. Say it takes another trillion or trillion-two to get us through one more year, they'd have to identify $2.5 trillion in cuts just to get the debt ceiling extended to next year -- $2.5 trillion. President Obama: 嗯，听着，Chuck，有一种——有一种相当直截了当的做法，那就是把债务上限放在一边，我们支付账单，然后我们就如何以平衡的方式进一步削减赤字进行一场激烈的辩论。
They can't even -- Congress has not been able to identify $1.2 trillion in cuts that they're happy with. Because these same Republicans say they don’t want to cut defense; they've claimed that they don't want to gut Medicare or harm the vulnerable. But the truth of the matter is that you can't meet their own criteria without drastically cutting Medicare, or having an impact on Medicaid, or affecting our defense spending. So the math just doesn’t add up. 请记住，我们从参众两院一些共和党人那里听到的是，他们只会按照他们能够推动的支出削减金额来提高债务上限——以替代自动减赤的削减——那是1.2万亿美元。假设还需要一万亿或一两万亿才能让我们再撑过一年，他们就必须确定2.5万亿美元的削减才能将债务上限延长到明年——2.5万亿美元。
Now, here’s what would work. What would work would be for us to say we’ve already done close to $2 trillion in deficit reduction, and if you add the interest that we won’t be paying because of less spending and increased revenue, it adds up to about $2.5 trillion. The consensus is we need about $4 trillion to stabilize our debt and our deficit, which means we need about $1.5 trillion more. The package that I offered to Speaker Boehner before we -- before the New Year would achieve that. We were actually fairly close in terms of arriving at that number. 他们甚至——国会连1.2万亿美元令他们满意的削减都无法确定。因为这些同样的共和党人说他们不想削减国防；他们声称不想大幅削减Medicare或伤害弱势群体。但事实是，不大幅削减Medicare、或影响Medicaid、或影响我们的国防支出，就无法满足他们自己的标准。所以数学就是对不上。那么，这才是可行的方案。可行的是我们说我们已经完成了近2万亿美元的赤字削减，如果加上因支出减少和收入增加而不用支付的利息，合计约2.5万亿美元。共识是我们需要约4万亿美元来稳定债务和赤字，这意味着我们还需要约1.5万亿美元。
So if the goal is to make sure that we are being responsible about our debt and our deficit, if that’s the conversation we’re having, I’m happy to have that conversation. And by closing some additional loopholes through tax reform -- which Speaker Boehner has acknowledged can raise money in a sensible way -- and by doing some additional cuts, including making sure that we are reducing our health care spending, which is the main driver of our deficits, we can arrive at a package that gets this thing done. 我在新年之前向Boehner议长提出的方案就能实现这一目标。在达成这个数字方面我们实际上相当接近。
I’m happy to have that conversation. What I will not do is to have that negotiation with a gun at the head of the American people -- the threat that “unless we get our way, unless you gut Medicare or Medicaid, or otherwise slash things that the American people don’t believe should be slashed, that we’re going to threaten to wreck the entire economy.” That is not how historically this has been done. That’s not how we’re going to do it this time. 因此，如果目标是确保我们对债务和赤字负责任，如果这就是我们正在进行的对话，我很乐意进行这场对话。通过税收改革堵住一些额外的漏洞——Boehner议长已承认这可以以明智的方式筹集资金——以及通过一些额外的削减，包括确保我们减少医疗支出，这是赤字的主要驱动因素，我们可以达成一个完成此事的方案。
Question: No plan B? You're not searching for any other -- 我很乐意进行那场对话。我不会做的是在枪指着美国人民脑袋的情况下进行那场谈判——威胁说「除非我们如愿以偿，除非你大幅削减Medicare或Medicaid，或以其他方式大幅削减美国人民认为不应削减的东西，否则我们将威胁搞垮整个经济。」这不是历史上做事的方式。这次我们也不会这样做。
President Obama: Chuck, what I’m saying to you is that there is no simpler solution, no ready, credible solution, other than Congress either give me the authority to raise the debt ceiling, or exercise the responsibility that they have kept for themselves and raise the debt ceiling. Because this is about paying your bills. Question: 没有B计划？您没有在寻找任何其他——
Everybody here understands this. I mean, this is not a complicated concept. You don’t go out to dinner and then eat all you want, and then leave without paying the check. And if you do, you’re breaking the law. And Congress should think about it the same way that the American people do. You don’t -- now, if Congress wants to have a debate about maybe we shouldn’t go out to dinner next time, maybe we should go to a more modest restaurant, that’s fine. That’s a debate that we should have. President Obama: Chuck，我对你说的是，除了国会要么给我提高债务上限的授权，要么行使他们为自己保留的责任提高债务上限，没有更简单的解决方案，没有现成的、可信的解决方案。因为这关乎支付你的账单。
But you don’t say, in order for me to control my appetites, I’m going to not pay the people who already provided me services, people who already lent me the money. That’s not showing any discipline. All that’s doing is not meeting your obligations. You can’t do that. 在座的每个人都理解这一点。我是说，这不是一个复杂的概念。你不会出去吃饭，想吃多少吃多少，然后不付账就走。如果你这样做了，你就是在违法。国会应该像美国人民一样看待这件事。你不会——现在，如果国会想辩论也许我们下次不应该出去吃饭，也许我们应该去一家更便宜的餐厅，那很好。那是一场我们应该进行的辩论。
And that’s not a credible way to run this government. We’ve got to stop lurching from crisis to crisis to crisis, when there’s this clear path ahead of us that simply requires some discipline, some responsibility and some compromise. That’s where we need to go. That’s how this needs to work. 但你不能说，为了控制我的食欲，我就不付钱给那些已经为我提供服务的人，不付钱给那些已经借给我钱的人。那不是在展示任何纪律。那只是在逃避你的义务。你不能这样做。
Major Garrett. 这不是管理这个政府的可靠方式。我们必须停止从一个危机到另一个危机地踉跄前行，因为前方有一条清晰的道路，只需要一些纪律、一些责任和一些妥协。这就是我们需要走的方向。这就是事情应该运作的方式。
Question: Thank you, Mr. President. As you well know, sir, finding votes for the debt ceiling can sometimes be complicated. You, yourself, as a member of the Senate, voted against a debt ceiling increase. And in previous aspects of American history -- President Reagan in 1985, President George Herbert Walker Bush in 1990, President Clinton in 1997 -- all signed deficit reduction deals that were contingent upon or in the context of raising the debt ceiling. You, yourself, four times have done that. Three times, those were related to deficit reduction or budget maneuvers. Major Garrett。Question: 谢谢您，总统先生。正如您所知，先生，为债务上限寻找选票有时可能很复杂。您自己作为参议员时，也曾投票反对提高债务上限。在美国历史的先前时期——1985年的Reagan总统、1990年的George Herbert Walker Bush总统、1997年的Clinton总统——都签署了以提高债务上限为前提或在提高债务上限背景下的赤字削减协议。
What Chuck and I and I think many people are curious about is this new, adamant desire on your part not to negotiate, when that seems to conflict with the entire history in the modern era of American Presidents and the debt ceiling, and your own history on the debt ceiling. And doesn’t that suggest that we are going to go into a default situation because no one is talking to each other about how to resolve this? 您自己四次这样做了。其中三次与赤字削减或预算操作有关。
President Obama: Well, no, Major, I think if you look at the history, getting votes for the debt ceiling is always difficult, and budgets in this town are always difficult. I went through this just last year. But what’s different is we never saw a situation as we saw last year in which certain groups in Congress took such an absolutist position that we came within a few days of defaulting. And the fact of the matter is, is that we have never seen the debt ceiling used in this fashion, where the notion was, you know what, we might default unless we get 100 percent of what we want. Chuck和我以及我认为许多人感到好奇的是，您这次表现出的不愿谈判的坚定态度，这似乎与美国总统和债务上限的整个现代历史相矛盾，也与您自己在债务上限上的历史相矛盾。这难道不意味着我们将走向违约局面，因为没有人就如何解决这个问题进行对话吗？
That hasn’t happened. President Obama: 嗯，不，Major，我认为如果你看历史，为债务上限争取选票总是困难的，这个城市的预算也总是困难的。我去年刚刚经历过这个。但不同的是，我们从未见过像去年那样的情况，国会中某些团体采取如此绝对的立场，以至于我们离违约只有几天之遥。
Now, as I indicated before, I’m happy to have a conversation about how we reduce our deficits further in a sensible way. Although one thing I want to point out is that the American people are also concerned about how we grow our economy, how we put people back to work, how we make sure that we finance our workers getting properly trained and our schools are giving our kids the education we deserve. There’s a whole growth agenda which will reduce our deficits that’s important as well. 而事实是，我们从未见过债务上限以这种方式被使用，其理念是，你知道吗，除非我们得到100%我们想要的，否则我们可能违约。这以前没有发生过。现在，正如我之前指出的，我很乐意就如何以明智的方式进一步削减赤字进行对话。虽然我想指出的一点是，美国人民也关心我们如何发展经济，如何让人们重新就业，如何确保我们为工人提供适当的培训资金，以及我们的学校为我们的孩子提供应有的教育。
But what you’ve never seen is the notion that has been presented, so far at least, by the Republicans that deficit reduction -- we’ll only count spending cuts; that we will raise the deficit -- or the debt ceiling dollar for dollar on spending cuts. There are a whole set of rules that have been established that are impossible to meet without doing severe damage to the economy. 还有一整套增长议程也能减少我们的赤字，这同样重要。
And so what we’re not going to do is put ourselves in a position where in order to pay for spending that we’ve already incurred, that our two options are we’re either going to profoundly hurt the economy and hurt middle-class families and hurt seniors and hurt kids who are trying to go to college, or, alternatively, we’re going to blow up the economy. We’re not going to do that. 但你从未见过的是，至少到目前为止共和党人所提出的理念，即赤字削减——只算支出削减；我们将按照支出削减的金额一比一地提高债务上限。已经建立的一整套规则，在不严重损害经济的情况下是不可能满足的。
Question: [Inaudible] -- open to a one-to-three-month extension to the debt ceiling -- whatever Congress sends you, you’re okay with it? 因此我们不会做的是让自己陷入这样的境地：为了支付我们已经产生的支出，我们的两个选择要么是严重损害经济、伤害中产阶级家庭、伤害老年人和伤害试图上大学的孩子，要么是搞垮经济。我们不会这样做。
President Obama: No, not whatever Congress sends me. They’re going to have to send me something that’s sensible. And we shouldn’t be doing this -- Question: [听不清]——对债务上限一到三个月的延期持开放态度——无论国会给您什么，您都可以接受？
Question: -- [inaudible] -- President Obama: 不，不是无论国会给我什么都可以。他们必须给我一些合理的东西。而且我们不应该这样做——
President Obama: -- and we shouldn’t be doing this on a one to three-month timeframe. Why would we do that? This is the United States of America, Major. What, we can’t manage our affairs in such a way that we pay our bills and we provide some certainty in terms of how we pay our bills? Question: ——[听不清]——
Look, I don’t think anybody would consider my position unreasonable here. I have -- President Obama: ——而且我们不应该在一到三个月的时间框架内做这件事。我们为什么要这样做？这是美利坚合众国，Major。怎么，我们不能以支付账单并提供支付账单方面一定确定性的方式管理我们的事务吗？
Question: But why does it presuppose the need to negotiate and talk about this on a daily basis? Because if default is the biggest threat to the economy, why not talk about it -- 听着，我不认为任何人会认为我的立场不合理。我已经——
President Obama: Major, I am happy to have a conversation about how we reduce our deficits. I’m not going to have a monthly or every-three-months conversation about whether or not we pay our bills. Because that in and of itself does severe damage. Even the threat of default hurts our economy. It’s hurting our economy as we speak. We shouldn’t be having that debate. Question: 但为什么这就预设了需要每天进行谈判和讨论？因为如果违约是经济的最大威胁，为什么不讨论——
If we want to have a conversation about how to reduce our deficit, let’s have that. We’ve been having that for the last two years. We just had an entire campaign about it. And by the way, the American people agreed with me that we should reduce our deficits in a balanced way that also takes into account the need for us to grow this economy and put people back to work. President Obama: Major，我很乐意就如何削减赤字进行对话。我不会每月或每三个月就我们是否支付账单进行对话。因为那本身就会造成严重损害。即使是违约的威胁也会损害我们的经济。就在我们说话的时候，它正在损害我们的经济。我们不应该进行那场辩论。
And despite that conversation, and despite the election results, the position that’s been taken on the part of some House Republicans is that, “no, we’ve got to do it our way, and if we don’t, we simply won’t pay America’s bills.” Well, that can’t be a position that is sustainable over time. It’s not one that's good for the economy now. It's certainly not going to be the kind of precedent that I want to establish not just for my presidency, but for future Presidents, even if it was on the other side. 如果我们想就如何削减赤字进行对话，那就来吧。过去两年我们一直在进行这场对话。我们刚刚进行了一整场关于此的竞选。顺便说一句，美国人民同意我的观点，即我们应该以平衡的方式削减赤字，同时也要考虑到我们发展经济和让人们重新就业的需要。尽管进行了那场对话，尽管选举结果如此，一些众议院共和党人采取的立场是，「不，我们必须按我们的方式做，如果我们不这样做，我们就不支付美国的账单。」好吧，这不可能是一个可持续的立场。它现在对经济没有好处。
Democrats don't like voting for the debt ceiling when a Republican is President, and yet you -- but you never saw a situation in which Democrats suggested somehow that we would go ahead and default if we didn't get 100 percent of our way. That's just not how it's supposed to work. 它当然不会是我想树立的那种先例，不仅是为了我的总统任期，也是为了未来的总统，即使是在另一边的总统。
Jon Karl. 民主党人不喜欢在共和党人当总统时投票支持债务上限，但你——但你从未见过民主党人暗示如果我们得不到100%我们想要的，我们就会违约的情况。这不是事情应该运作的方式。
Question: Thank you, Mr. President. On the issue of guns, given how difficult it will be -- some would say impossible -- to get any gun control measure passed through this Congress, what are you willing or able to do, using the powers of your presidency, to act without Congress? And I'd also like to know, what do you make of these long lines we're seeing at gun shows and gun stores all around the country? I mean, even in Connecticut, applications for guns are up since the shooting in Newtown. Jon Karl。
President Obama: Well, my understanding is the Vice President is going to provide a range of steps that we can take to reduce gun violence. Some of them will require legislation. Some of them I can accomplish through executive action. And so I'll be reviewing those today. And as I said, I'll speak in more detail to what we're going to go ahead and propose later in the week. Question: 谢谢您，总统先生。关于枪支问题，鉴于通过本届国会通过任何枪支管控措施将是多么困难——有些人会说不可能——您愿意或能够利用总统的权力做什么，在没有国会的情况下采取行动？
But I'm confident that there are some steps that we can take that don't require legislation and that are within my authority as President. And where you get a step that has the opportunity to reduce the possibility of gun violence then I want to go ahead and take it. 我还想知道，您如何看待我们在全国各地枪展和枪店看到的长队？我是说，甚至在Connecticut，自纽敦枪击事件以来枪支申请数量都在上升。
Question: Any idea of what kind of steps? President Obama: 嗯，我的理解是副总统将提供一系列我们可以采取的减少枪支暴力的步骤。其中一些需要立法。其中一些我可以通过行政行动来完成。所以我今天将审阅这些。正如我所说，我将在本周晚些时候更详细地说明我们将提出什么。
President Obama: Well, I think, for example, how we are gathering data, for example, on guns that fall into the hands of criminals, and how we track that more effectively -- there may be some steps that we can take administratively as opposed through legislation. 但我相信有一些步骤我们可以在不需要立法的情况下采取，而且在我的总统权限之内。当你有一个能够减少枪支暴力可能性的步骤时，我就想去做。
As far as people lining up and purchasing more guns, I think that we've seen for some time now that those who oppose any common-sense gun control or gun safety measures have a pretty effective way of ginning up fear on the part of gun owners that somehow the federal government is about to take all your guns away. And there's probably an economic element to that. It obviously is good for business. Question: 您知道是什么样的步骤吗？
But I think that those of us who look at this problem have repeatedly said that responsible gun owners, people who have a gun for protection, for hunting, for sportsmanship, they don't have anything to worry about. The issue here is not whether or not we believe in the Second Amendment. The issue is, are there some sensible steps that we can take to make sure that somebody like the individual in Newtown can't walk into a school and gun down a bunch of children in a shockingly rapid fashion. And surely, we can do something about that. President Obama: 嗯，我想，例如，我们如何收集落入罪犯手中的枪支数据，以及我们如何更有效地追踪——有一些步骤我们可以通过行政手段而不是立法来采取。
But part of the challenge that we confront is, is that even the slightest hint of some sensible, responsible legislation in this area fans this notion that somehow, here it comes and everybody's guns are going to be taken away. It's unfortunate, but that's the case. And if you look at over the first four years of my administration, we’ve tried to tighten up and enforce some of the laws that were already on the books. But it would be pretty hard to argue that somehow gun owners have had their rights infringed. 至于人们排队购买更多枪支，我认为我们一段时间以来已经看到，那些反对任何常识性枪支管控或枪支安全措施的人有一种相当有效的方式，在枪支拥有者中制造恐惧，让他们以为联邦政府即将没收你所有的枪。这大概还有经济因素。这显然对生意有利。
Question: So you think this is an irrational fear that's driving all these people to go and stock up -- 但我认为我们中关注这个问题的人一再说过，负责任的枪支拥有者，为了保护、打猎、体育运动而拥有枪支的人，他们没有什么可担心的。这里的问题不是我们是否相信第二修正案。
President Obama: Excuse me? 问题是，我们能否采取一些明智的步骤，确保像纽敦事件中的那个人不能走进一所学校，以令人震惊的速度枪杀一群孩子。当然，我们可以对此做些什么。
Question: Do you think this is an irrational fear -- 但我们面临的挑战的一部分是，即使是这一领域一些明智、负责任立法的最微弱暗示，都会助长这种观念，即它来了，每个人的枪都将被没收。这令人遗憾，但事实如此。
President Obama: Well, as I said, I think it's a fear that's fanned by those who are worried about the possibility of any legislation getting out there. 如果你回顾我执政的头四年，我们试图加强和执行一些已经写在法律中的规定。但很难说枪支拥有者的权利受到了侵犯。
Julianna Goldman. Question: 那么您认为这是一种非理性的恐惧在驱使所有这些人去囤积——
Question: Thank you, Mr. President. I just want to come back to the debt ceiling, because in the summer of 2011, you said that you wouldn't negotiate on the debt ceiling, and you did. Last year, you said that you wouldn't extend any of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, and you did. So as you say now that you're not going to negotiate on the debt ceiling this year, why should House Republicans take that seriously and think that if we get to the one-minute-to-midnight scenario, that you're not going to back down? President Obama: 不好意思？Question: 您认为这是一种非理性的恐惧——
President Obama: Well, first of all, Julianna, let's take the example of this year and the fiscal cliff. I didn't say that I would not have any conversations at all about extending the Bush tax cuts. What I said was we weren't going to extend Bush tax cuts for the wealthy -- and we didn't. Now, you can argue that during the campaign I said -- I set the criteria for wealthy at $250,000 and we ended up being at $400,000. But the fact of the matter is millionaires, billionaires are paying significantly more in taxes, just as I said. President Obama: 嗯，正如我所说，我认为这是一种被那些担心任何立法可能出台的人所煽动的恐惧。
So from the start, my concern was making sure that we had a tax code that was fair and that protected the middle class, and my biggest priority was making sure that middle-class taxes did not go up. Julianna Goldman。
The difference between this year and 2011 is the fact that we've already made $1.2 trillion in cuts. And at the time, I indicated that there were cuts that we could sensibly make that would not damage our economy, would not impede growth. I said at the time I think we should pair it up with revenue in order to have an overall balanced package. But my own budget reflected cuts in discretionary spending. My own budget reflected the cuts that needed to be made, and we've made those cuts. Question: 谢谢您，总统先生。我只想回到债务上限问题，因为在2011年夏天，您说您不会在债务上限上谈判，但您谈了。去年，您说您不会延长任何针对富人的Bush减税政策，但您延长了。
Now, the challenge going forward is that we've now made some big cuts, and if we're going to do further deficit reduction, the only way to do it is in a balanced and responsible way. 那么当您现在说今年不会在债务上限上谈判时，为什么众议院共和党人应该认真对待，并认为如果我们到了最后一分钟的情形，您不会退让？
The alternative is for us to go ahead and cut commitments that we've made on things like Medicare, or Social Security, or Medicaid, and for us to fundamentally change commitments that we've made to make sure that seniors don't go into poverty, or that children who are disabled are properly cared for. President Obama: 嗯，首先，Julianna，让我们以今年和财政悬崖为例。我没有说我不会就延长Bush减税进行任何对话。我说的是我们不会延长针对富人的Bush减税——而我们确实没有。
For us to change that contract we've made with the American people rather than look at options like closing loopholes for corporations that they don't need, that points to a long-term trend in which we have fundamentally, I think, undermined what people expect out of this government -- which is that parties sit down, they negotiate, they compromise, but they also reflect the will of the American people; that you don't have one narrow faction that is able to simply dictate 100 percent of what they want all the time or otherwise threaten that we destroy the American economy. 现在，你可以争辩说在竞选期间我说——我将富人的标准设定为25万美元，而最终定在了40万美元。但事实是百万富翁、亿万富翁缴纳了明显更多的税款，正如我所说的。因此从一开始，我关心的是确保我们有一个公平的税法并保护中产阶级，而我最大的优先事项是确保中产阶级的税收不增加。
Another way of putting it is we've got to break the habit of negotiating through crisis over and over again. And now is as good of a time as any, at the start of my second term, because if we continue down this path, then there's really no stopping the principle. 今年和2011年的区别在于我们已经完成了1.2万亿美元的削减。当时我指出有一些我们可以明智地进行而不会损害经济、不会阻碍增长的削减。我当时说我认为应该将其与收入配对，以形成一个整体平衡的方案。但我自己的预算反映了对可自由支配支出的削减。我自己的预算反映了需要进行的削减，而我们已经完成了这些削减。
I mean, literally -- even in divided government, even where we've got a Democratic President and a Democratic Senate, that a small group in the House of Representatives could simply say every two months, every three months, every six months, every year, we are going to more and more change the economy in ways that we prefer, despite strong objections of Americans all across the country, or otherwise we're going to have America not pay its bills. And that is no way for us to do business. 现在，前进的挑战是我们已经进行了一些大的削减，如果我们要进一步削减赤字，唯一的方法是以平衡和负责任的方式进行。
And by the way, I would make the same argument if it was a Republican President and a Republican Senate and you had a handful of Democrats who were suggesting that we are going to hijack the process and make sure that either we get our way 100 percent of the time, or otherwise we are going to default on America’s obligations. 另一种选择是继续削减我们在Medicare、Social Security或Medicaid方面做出的承诺，从根本上改变我们为确保老年人不陷入贫困、或确保残疾儿童得到适当照料而做出的承诺。
Question: [Inaudible] -- line in the sand negotiating, how is that [inaudible] to the economy? 我们改变与美国人民签订的契约，而不是考虑诸如关闭企业不需要的漏洞等选项，这指向了一种长期趋势，在这种趋势中我们从根本上——我认为——破坏了人们对这个政府的期望——即各党派坐下来，谈判，妥协，但也反映美国人民的意愿；不让一个狭隘的派系能够简单地一直独断100%他们想要的，否则就威胁摧毁美国经济。
President Obama: No, no, look, what I’ve said is that I’m happy to have a conversation about deficit reduction -- 另一种说法是我们必须打破一次又一次通过危机来谈判的习惯。现在和任何时候一样好，在我的第二任期开始之际，因为如果我们继续走这条路，那就真的无法阻止这种做法了。
Question: So you technically are willing to negotiate? 我的意思是，字面上说——即使在分裂的政府中，即使我们有一位民主党总统和一个民主党参议院，众议院的一小群人也可以每两个月、每三个月、每六个月、每年都说，我们将越来越以我们偏好的方式改变经济，尽管全国各地美国人强烈反对，否则我们就让美国不支付账单。这不是我们做事的方式。
President Obama: No, Julianna, look, this is pretty straightforward. Either Congress pays its bills or it doesn't. Now, if -- and they want to keep this responsibility; if John Boehner and Mitch McConnell think that they can come up with a plan that somehow meets their criteria that they’ve set for why they will -- when they will raise the debt ceiling, they're free to go ahead and try. But the proposals that they’ve put forward in order to accomplish that -- only by cutting spending -- means cuts to things like Medicare and education that the American people profoundly reject. 顺便说一句，如果是共和党总统和共和党参议院，而有少数民主党人暗示我们将挟持这个过程，确保要么我们一直100%如愿以偿，要么我们就对美国义务违约，我也会提出同样的论点。Question: [听不清]——划定底线谈判，这如何[听不清]影响经济？
Now, if they think that they can get that through Congress, then they're free to try. But I think that a better way of doing this is go ahead and say, we’re going to pay our bills. The question now is how do we actually get our deficit in a manageable, sustainable way? And that's a conversation I’m happy to have. President Obama: 不，不，听着，我说过我很乐意就赤字削减进行对话——
All right. Matt Spetalnick. Question: 那么从技术上讲您愿意谈判？
Question: Thank you, sir. You’ve spoken extensively about the debt ceiling debate, but some Republicans have further said that they're willing to allow a government shutdown to take place rather than put off deep spending cuts. Are you prepared to allow the government to grind to a halt if you disagree with the spending cut proposals they put forth? And who do you think the American people would blame if that came to pass? President Obama: 不，Julianna，听着，这很直接。要么国会支付账单，要么不支付。现在，如果——他们想保留这个责任；如果John Boehner和Mitch McConnell认为他们能拿出一个满足他们为自己设定的标准的方案——即何时提高债务上限——他们可以自由地去尝试。
President Obama: Well, ultimately, Congress makes the decisions about whether or not we spend money and whether or not we keep this government open. And if the Republicans in Congress have made a decision that they want to shut down the government in order to get their way then they have the votes at least in the House of Representatives, probably, to do that. 但他们为达成这一目标而提出的方案——仅通过削减支出——意味着削减Medicare和教育等美国人民深切反对的项目。
I think that would be a mistake. I think it would be profoundly damaging to our economy. I think it would actually add to our deficit because it will impede growth. I think it’s shortsighted. But they’re elected representatives, and folks put them into those positions and they’re going to have to make a decision about that. And I don’t -- I suspect that the American people would blame all of Washington for not being able to get its act together. 现在，如果他们认为这能在国会通过，那么他们可以自由地尝试。但我认为更好的做法是直接说，我们要支付我们的账单。现在的问题是我们如何以可管理、可持续的方式实际削减赤字？那是我很乐意进行的对话。
But the larger issue here has to do with what is it that we’re trying to accomplish. Are we trying to reduce the deficit? Because if we’re trying to reduce the deficit, then we can shape a bipartisan plan to reduce the deficit. I mean, is that really our objective? Our concern is that we’re spending more than we take in, and if that’s the case, then there’s a way of balancing that out so that we take in more money in increasing revenue and we reduce spending. And there’s a recipe for getting that done. 好了。Matt Spetalnick。
And in the conversations that I had with Speaker Boehner before the end of the year, we came pretty close -- a few hundred billion dollars separating us when stretched over a 10-year period, that’s not a lot. Question: 谢谢您，先生。您已经详细谈论了债务上限辩论，但一些共和党人进一步表示，他们宁愿让政府关门也不愿推迟深度支出削减。您是否准备好在您不同意他们提出的支出削减方案时让政府停摆？如果真的发生这种情况，您认为美国人民会怪谁？
But it seems as if what’s motivating and propelling at this point some of the House Republicans is more than simply deficit reduction. They have a particular vision about what government should and should not do. So they are suspicious about government’s commitments, for example, to make sure that seniors have decent health care as they get older. They have suspicions about Social Security. They have suspicions about whether government should make sure that kids in poverty are getting enough to eat, or whether we should be spending money on medical research. President Obama: 嗯，最终，国会决定我们是否花钱以及是否保持政府运转。如果国会共和党人决定要关闭政府以达到目的，那么他们至少在众议院可能拥有这样做的票数。
So they’ve got a particular view of what government should do and should be. 我认为那将是一个错误。我认为它将对我们的经济造成深远的损害。我认为它实际上会增加我们的赤字，因为它会阻碍增长。我认为它是短视的。但他们是民选代表，人们把他们放在了那些位置上，他们将不得不就此做出决定。而且我不——我怀疑美国人民会责怪整个华盛顿无法协调行动。
And that view was rejected by the American people when it was debated during the presidential campaign. I think every poll that’s out there indicates that the American people actually think our commitment to Medicare or to education is really important, and that’s something that we should look at as a last resort in terms of reducing the deficit, and it makes a lot more sense for us to close, for example, corporate loopholes before we go to putting a bigger burden on students or seniors. 但这里更大的问题是我们要实现什么目标。我们是在试图削减赤字吗？因为如果我们试图削减赤字，那么我们可以制定一个两党削减赤字的方案。我是说，这真的是我们的目标吗？我们担心的是我们花得比收入多，如果是这样的话，有一种方法可以平衡——通过增加收入和减少支出来实现。而且有一个实现这一目标的方案。
But if the House Republicans disagree with that and they want to shut down the government to see if they can get their way on it, that’s their prerogative. That’s how the system is set up. It will damage our economy. 在年底之前我与Boehner议长的对话中，我们非常接近——相差几千亿美元，分摊到十年期间，这不是很多。
The government is a big part of this economy, and it’s interesting that a lot of times you have people who recognize that when it comes to defense spending -- some of the same folks who say we’ve got to cut spending, or complain that government jobs don’t do anything, when it comes to that defense contractor in their district, they think, wow, this is a pretty important part of the economy in my district and we shouldn’t stop spending on that. Let’s just make sure we’re not spending on those other folks. 但似乎此刻推动一些众议院共和党人的动机不仅仅是削减赤字。他们对政府应该和不应该做什么有一种特定的愿景。因此他们怀疑政府的承诺，例如，确保老年人随着年龄增长能获得像样的医疗保健。
Question: -- find agreement with Republicans on this and -- 他们对Social Security有疑虑。他们怀疑政府是否应该确保贫困儿童吃饱，或者我们是否应该在医学研究上花钱。因此他们对政府应该做什么和应该是什么有一种特定的看法。
President Obama: Look, my hope is, is that common sense prevails. That’s always my preference. And I think that would the preference of the American people, and that’s what would be good for the economy. 这种观点在总统竞选期间被辩论时已被美国人民否决。我认为现有的每一项民调都表明，美国人民实际上认为我们对Medicare或教育的承诺非常重要，我们应该将其作为削减赤字的最后手段来考虑，而对我们来说，在给学生或老年人增加更大负担之前，关闭企业漏洞等做法要有意义得多。
So let me just repeat: If the issue is deficit reduction, getting our deficits sustainable over time, getting our debt in a sustainable place, then Democrats and Republicans in Congress will have a partner with me. 但如果众议院共和党人不同意这一点，他们想关闭政府看能否如愿以偿，那是他们的权利。制度就是这样设计的。它会损害我们的经济。
We can achieve that, and we can achieve it fairly quickly. I mean, we know what the numbers are. We know what needs to be done. We know what a balanced approach would take. We’ve already done probably more than half of the deficit reduction we need to stabilize the debt and the deficit. There’s probably been more pain and drama in getting there than we needed. And so finishing the job shouldn’t be that difficult -- if everybody comes to the conversation with an open mind, and if we recognize that there are some things, like not paying our bills, that should be out of bounds. 政府是这个经济的重要组成部分，有趣的是很多时候你会发现人们在国防支出方面认识到这一点——一些说我们必须削减支出或抱怨政府工作毫无用处的人，当涉及到他们选区的国防承包商时，他们会想，哇，这是我选区经济中相当重要的一部分，我们不应该停止这方面的支出。我们只需确保不在其他人身上花钱。Question: ——在这一点上与共和党人达成一致并且——
All right. I’m going to take one last question. Jackie Calmes. President Obama: 听着，我的希望是常识能够占上风。那始终是我的偏好。我认为这也是美国人民的偏好，而且那才是对经济有利的。
Question: Thank you, Mr. President. 那么让我重复一下：如果问题是削减赤字，让我们的赤字随时间变得可持续，让我们的债务处于可持续的水平，那么国会民主党人和共和党人将在我这儿找到一个合作伙伴。
President Obama: Yes. 我们可以实现这一目标，而且可以相当快地实现。我的意思是，我们知道数字是多少。我们知道需要做什么。我们知道平衡方案需要什么。我们已经完成了稳定债务和赤字所需赤字削减的一半以上。
Question: I’d like to ask you, now that you’ve reached the end of your first term, starting your second, about a couple of criticisms -- one that’s longstanding, another more recent. The longstanding one seems to have become a truism of sorts that you’re -- you and your staff are too insular, that you don’t socialize enough. And the second, the more recent criticism is that your team taking shape isn’t diverse -- isn’t as diverse as it could be, or even was, in terms of getting additional voices, gender, race, ethnic diversity. So I’d like you to address both of those. 在实现这一目标的过程中，可能经历了比我们需要的更多的痛苦和戏剧性。因此完成这项工作不应该那么困难——如果每个人都以开放的心态参与对话，如果我们认识到有一些事情，比如不支付我们的账单，应该是不可逾越的底线。好了。我要回答最后一个问题。Jackie Calmes。
President Obama: Sure. Let me take the second one first. I’m very proud that in the first four years we had as diverse, if not more diverse, a White House and a Cabinet than any in history. And I intend to continue that, because it turns out that when you look for the very best people, given the incredible diversity of this country, you’re going to end up with a diverse staff and a diverse team. And that very diversity helps to create more effective policymaking and better decision-making for me, because it brings different perspectives to the table. Question: 谢谢您，总统先生。President Obama: 是的。
So if you think about my first four years, the person who probably had the most influence on my foreign policy was a woman. The people who were in charge of moving forward my most important domestic initiative, health care, were women. The person in charge of our homeland security was a woman. My two appointments to the Supreme Court were women, and 50 percent of my White House staff were women. So I think people should expect that that record will be built upon during the next four years. Question: 我想请问您，现在您已结束第一任期、开始第二任期，关于两个批评——一个是长期的，另一个是较近的。长期的那个似乎已成为某种老生常谈，说您——您和您的团队过于封闭，不够社交。第二个较近的批评是您正在组建的团队不够多元——不如本可以的那样多元，甚至不如过去，在引入更多不同声音、性别、种族、族裔多元化方面。所以我想请您回应这两个问题。
Now, what, I’ve made four appointments so far? And one women -- admittedly, a high-profile one -- is leaving the -- has already left the administration, and I have made a replacement. But I would just suggest that everybody kind of wait until they’ve seen all my appointments, who’s in the White House staff and who’s in my Cabinet before they rush to judgment. President Obama: 当然。让我先回答第二个。我很自豪在头四年里我们拥有史上最多元化的——如果不是更多元化的——白宫和内阁。我打算继续这样做，因为事实证明，当你寻找最优秀的人才时，考虑到这个国家令人难以置信的多元化，你最终会拥有一支多元化的员工和团队。而正是这种多元化有助于制定更有效的政策和为我做出更好的决策，因为它带来了不同的视角。
Question: [Inaudible] -- the big three. 因此如果你回顾我的头四年，对我的外交政策影响最大的人是一位女性。负责推进我最重要的国内倡议——医疗改革——的人是女性。负责我们国土安全的人是女性。我任命到最高法院的两位大法官都是女性，我的白宫员工中50%是女性。因此我认为人们应该期望这一记录将在未来四年中得到延续。
President Obama: Yes, but I guess what I’m saying, Jackie, is that I think until you’ve seen what my overall team looks like, it’s premature to assume that somehow we’re going backwards. We’re not going backwards, we’re going forward. 现在，我至今已经做了四次任命了吧？有一位女性—— admittedly是一位高调的女性——离开了——已经离开了政府，我已经任命了接替者。但我只想建议大家在看到我所有的任命、白宫员工和内阁人选之前，先不要急于下结论。
With respect to this “truism” about me not socializing enough and patting folks on the back and all that stuff, most people who know me know I’m a pretty friendly guy. And I like a good party. And the truth is that when I was in the Senate, I had great relationships over there, and up until the point that I became President this was not an accusation that you heard very frequently. Question: [听不清]——三大职位。
I think that really what’s gone on in terms of some of the paralysis here in Washington or difficulties in negotiations just have to do with some very stark differences in terms of policy, some very sharp differences in terms of where we stand on issues. And if you think about, let's say, myself and Speaker Boehner, I like Speaker Boehner personally, and when we went out and played golf we had a great time. But that didn't get a deal done in 2011. President Obama: 是的，但我想说的是，Jackie，我认为在你看到我的整体团队构成之前，假设我们某种程度地在倒退是为时过早的。我们不会倒退，我们在前进。
When I'm over here at the congressional picnic and folks are coming up and taking pictures with their family, I promise you, Michelle and I are very nice to them and we have a wonderful time. But it doesn't prevent them from going onto the floor of the House and blasting me for being a big-spending socialist. 关于我不够社交、不够拍人马屁等等「老生常谈」，认识我的人大多知道我是一个相当友善的人。我喜欢一个好的派对。事实是，当我在参议院时，我在那里有很好的关系，直到我成为总统之前，这不是你经常听到的指责。
And the reason that, in many cases, Congress votes the way they do, or talks the way they talk, or takes positions in negotiations that they take doesn't have to do with me. It has to do with the imperatives that they feel in terms of their own politics -- right? They're worried about their district. They're worried about what's going on back home. 我认为华盛顿这里一些瘫痪或谈判中的困难，实际上与一些非常尖锐的政策分歧、一些非常深刻的立场分歧有关。如果你想想，比如说，我和Boehner议长，我个人喜欢Boehner议长，我们出去打高尔夫时很开心。但那并没有在2011年达成协议。
I think there are a lot of Republicans at this point that feel that given how much energy has been devoted in some of the media that's preferred by Republican constituencies to demonize me, that it doesn't look real good socializing with me. Charlie Crist down in Florida I think testifies to that. And I think a lot of folks say, well, if we look like we're being too cooperative or too chummy with the President that might cause us problems. That might be an excuse for us to get a challenge from somebody in a primary. 当我在国会野餐会上，人们带着家人来拍照时，我向你保证，Michelle和我对他们非常好，我们度过了愉快的时光。但这并不妨碍他们到众议院辩论厅去抨击我是一个大手大脚的社会主义者。而在很多情况下，国会投票的方式、说话的方式，或在谈判中采取的立场，其原因与我无关。而是与他们在自身政治中感受到的迫切需求有关——对吧？他们担心自己的选区。他们担心家乡发生的事情。
So that tends to be the challenge. I promise you, we invite folks from Congress over here all the time. And when they choose to come, I enjoy their company. Sometimes they don't choose to come, and that has to do with the fact that I think they don't consider the optics useful for them politically. 我认为此时有很多共和党人觉得，鉴于一些共和党选区偏好的媒体花了大量精力来妖魔化我，与我社交看起来不太好。Florida的Charlie Crist我认为可以证明这一点。而且我认为很多人会说，如果我们看起来太合作或与总统太亲密，那可能会给我们带来麻烦。那可能是我们在初选中遭到挑战的借口。
And, ultimately, the way we're going to get stuff done -- personal relationships are important, and obviously I can always do a better job, and the nice thing is, is that now that my girls are getting older, they don't want to spend that much time with me anyway, so I'll be probably calling around, looking for somebody to play cards with me or something, because I'm getting kind of lonely in this big house. So maybe a whole bunch of members of the House Republican caucus want to come over and socialize more. 所以这往往是挑战所在。我向你保证，我们一直在邀请国会议员来这里。当他们选择来时，我享受他们的陪伴。有时他们不来，这跟我认为他们不觉得这种形象对他们政治有利有关。最终，我们能把事情做成的方式——人际关系很重要，显然我总能做得更好，好消息是，现在我的女儿们长大了，她们反正也不想花那么多时间和我在一起，所以我大概会到处打电话，找人陪我打牌什么的，因为我在这个大房子里越来越孤独了。也许一大群众议院共和党党团成员想过来多社交一下。
But my suspicion is getting the issues resolved that we just talked about, the big stuff -- whether or not we get sensible laws passed to prevent gun violence, whether or not America is paying its bills, whether or not we get immigration reform done -- all that's going to be determined largely by where the respective parties stand on policy, and maybe most importantly, the attitude of the American people. 但我怀疑，解决我们刚才谈论的那些问题——那些大事——能否通过 sensible法律防止枪支暴力、美国是否支付账单、我们能否完成移民改革——这些很大程度上将取决于各党在政策上的立场，也许最重要的是，美国人民的态度。
If the American people feel strongly about these issues and they push hard, and they reward or don't reward members of Congress with their votes, if they reject sort of uncompromising positions or sharp partisanship or always looking out for the next election, and they reward folks who are trying to find common ground, then I think you'll see behavior in Congress change. And that will be true whether I'm the life of the party or a stick in the mud. 如果美国人民对这些议题有强烈感受并积极推动，如果他们用选票奖励或不奖励国会议员，如果他们拒绝不妥协的立场或尖锐的党派之争或总是着眼于下一次选举的做法，并奖励那些试图寻找共同点的人，那么我认为你会看到国会行为的改变。无论我是派对的灵魂人物还是扫兴的人，这都将是成立的。
Thank you very much, everybody. 谢谢大家。