Good afternoon. This is the most wonderful press conference of the year. I've got a list of who’s been naughty and nice to call on. But let me first make a couple of quick points, and then I’ll take your questions. 下午好。这是一年中最精彩的记者会。我手里有一份"淘气和乖"的名单来点名提问。但首先让我先简单说几点，然后我再回答你们的问题。
Typically, I use this yearend press conference to review how far we’ve come over the course of the year. Today, understandably, I'm going to talk a little bit about how far we’ve come over the past eight years. 通常，我会利用这个年终记者会来回顾我们这一年取得了多大进展。今天，可以理解的是，我要谈谈过去八年我们取得了多大进展。
As I was preparing to take office, the unemployment rate was on its way to 10 percent. Today, it’s at 4.6 percent -- the lowest in nearly a decade. We’ve seen the longest streak of job growth on record, and wages have grown faster over the past few years than at any time in the past 40. 在我准备就任时，失业率正在攀升至10%。今天，失业率是4.6%——近十年来的最低水平。我们见证了有记录以来持续时间最长的就业增长，过去几年工资的增长速度超过了过去40年的任何时候。
When I came into office, 44 million people were uninsured. Today, we’ve covered more than 20 million of them. For the first time in our history, more than 90 percent of Americans are insured. In fact, yesterday was the biggest day ever for HealthCare.gov. More than 670,000 Americans signed up to get covered, and more are signing up by the day. 我上任时，有4400万人没有医疗保险。今天，我们已经为其中2000多万人提供了医保。美国历史上首次有超过90%的人享有医保。事实上，昨天是HealthCare.gov有史以来最火爆的一天。超过67万美国人报名参保，而且每天都有更多人在注册。
We’ve cut our dependence on foreign oil by more than half, doubled production of renewable energy, enacted the most sweeping reforms since FDR to protect consumers and prevent a crisis on Wall Street from punishing Main Street ever again. None of these actions stifled growth, as critics predicted. Instead, the stock market has nearly tripled. Since I signed ObamaCare into law, our businesses have added more than 15 million new jobs. And the economy is undoubtedly more durable than it was in the days when we relied on oil from unstable nations and banks took risky bets with your money. 我们将对外国石油的依赖减少了一半以上，可再生能源产量翻了一番，实施了自富兰克林·罗斯福以来最全面的改革，以保护消费者，防止华尔街的危机再次惩罚普通民众。这些举措都没有像批评者预测的那样抑制增长。相反，股市几乎翻了三倍。自我将奥巴马医改签署为法律以来，我们的企业新增了1500多万个就业岗位。经济无疑比过去更加稳固了——过去我们依赖不稳定国家的石油，银行用你们的钱进行冒险赌注。
Add it all up, and last year, the poverty rate fell at the fastest rate in almost 50 years, while the median household income grew at the fastest rate on record. In fact, income gains were actually larger for households at the bottom and the middle than for those at the top. And we’ve done all this while cutting our deficits by nearly two-thirds and protecting vital investments that grow the middle class. 把所有这些加起来，去年，贫困率以近50年来最快的速度下降，而家庭收入中位数则以有记录以来最快的速度增长。事实上，底层和中等收入家庭的收入增长实际上比顶层家庭要大。我们在实现所有这一切的同时，将赤字削减了近三分之二，并保护了促进中产阶级成长的重要投资。
In foreign policy, when I came into office, we were in the midst of two wars. Now, nearly 180,000 troops are down to 15,000. Bin Laden, rather than being at large, has been taken off the battlefield, along with thousands of other terrorists. Over the past eight years, no foreign terrorist organization has successfully executed an attack on our homeland that was directed from overseas. 在外交政策方面，我上任时我们正处于两场战争之中。现在，近18万部队已减至1.5万人。本·拉登不再逍遥法外，他已被击毙，数千名其他恐怖分子也被消灭。在过去八年里，没有任何外国恐怖组织成功实施了由海外指挥的针对我们本土的袭击。
Through diplomacy, we’ve ensured that Iran cannot obtain a nuclear weapon -- without going to war with Iran. We opened up a new chapter with the people of Cuba. And we brought nearly 200 nations together around a climate agreement that could very well save this planet for our kids. And almost every country on Earth sees America as stronger and more respected today than they did eight years ago. In other words, by so many measures, our country is stronger and more prosperous than it was when we started. 通过外交手段，我们确保了伊朗无法获得核武器——没有与伊朗开战。我们与古巴人民开启了新的篇章。我们将近200个国家聚集在一起，达成了一项气候协议，它很可能为我们的孩子拯救这个星球。今天，几乎世界上每个国家都认为美国比八年前更强大、更受尊重。换句话说，从许许多多方面来看，我们的国家比我们起步时更强大、更繁荣。
That's a situation that I’m proud to leave for my successor. 这是我很自豪能留给我继任者的局面。
And it’s thanks to the American people -- to the hard work that you’ve put in, the sacrifices you’ve made for your families and your communities, the businesses that you started or invested in, the way you looked out for one another. And I could not be prouder to be your President. 这要归功于美国人民——归功于你们付出的辛勤努力，你们为家庭和社区做出的牺牲，你们创办或投资的企业，你们互相照顾的方式。能成为你们的总统，我感到无比自豪。
Of course, to tout this progress doesn’t mean that we’re not mindful of how much more there is to do. In this season in particular, we’re reminded that there are people who are still hungry, people who are still homeless; people who still have trouble paying the bills or finding work after being laid off. There are communities that are still mourning those who have been stolen from us by senseless gun violence, and parents who still are wondering how to protect their kids. 当然，夸耀这些进步并不意味着我们没有意识到还有更多工作要做。尤其是在这个季节，我们被提醒，仍有人在挨饿，仍有人无家可归；仍有人难以支付账单，或在被解雇后找不到工作。有些社区仍在为那些被无谓的枪支暴力夺走的人哀悼，父母们仍在想如何保护他们的孩子。
And after I leave office, I intend to continue to work with organizations and citizens doing good across the country on these and other pressing issues to build on the progress that we’ve made. 在我离任后，我打算继续与全国各地做好事的组织和公民合作，在这些以及其他紧迫问题上再接再厉，巩固我们取得的进展。
Around the world, as well, there are hotspots where disputes have been intractable, conflicts have flared up, and people -- innocent people are suffering as a result. And nowhere is this more terribly true than in the city of Aleppo. For years, we’ve worked to stop the civil war in Syria and alleviate human suffering. It has been one of the hardest issues that I've faced as President. 在世界各地，也有一些热点地区，争端难以解决，冲突不断升级，结果是——无辜的人民——在受苦。没有哪个地方比阿勒颇市更能真切地体现这一点。多年来，我们一直致力于阻止叙利亚内战，减轻人类苦难。这是我作为总统面临的最棘手的问题之一。
The world, as we speak, is united in horror at the savage assault by the Syrian regime and its Russian and Iranian allies on the city of Aleppo. We have seen a deliberate strategy of surrounding, besieging, and starving innocent civilians. We've seen relentless targeting of humanitarian workers and medical personnel; entire neighborhoods reduced to rubble and dust. There are continuing reports of civilians being executed. These are all horrific violations of international law. Responsibility for this brutality lies in one place alone -- with the Assad regime and its allies Russia and Iran. 就在我们说话的此刻，全世界都在对叙利亚政权及其俄罗斯和伊朗盟友对阿勒颇市的野蛮攻击感到震惊。我们看到了一种蓄意的策略：包围、围困和饿死无辜平民。我们看到人道主义工作者和医务人员不断成为袭击目标；整个街区沦为废墟和尘土。不断有平民被处决的报道。这些都是对国际法的可怕违反。这一暴行的责任只在一个地方——阿萨德政权及其盟友俄罗斯和伊朗。
And this blood and these atrocities are on their hands. 这笔血债和这些暴行都要算在他们头上。
We all know what needs to happen. There needs to be an impartial international observer force in Aleppo that can help coordinate an orderly evacuation through safe corridors. There has to be full access for humanitarian aid, even as the United States continues to be the world’s largest donor of humanitarian aid to the Syrian people. And, beyond that, there needs to be a broader ceasefire that can serve as the basis for a political rather than a military solution. 我们都知道需要做什么。阿勒颇需要一支公正的国际观察部队，帮助协调通过安全通道的有序撤离。人道主义援助必须能够全面进入，与此同时，美国仍然是向叙利亚人民提供人道主义援助的全球最大捐助国。除此之外，还需要更广泛的停火，作为政治解决方案而非军事解决方案的基础。
That’s what the United States is going to continue to push for, both with our partners and through multilateral institutions like the U.N. 这就是美国将继续推动的目标，既与我们的伙伴合作，也通过联合国等多边机构推动。
Regretfully, but unsurprisingly, Russia has repeatedly blocked the Security Council from taking action on these issues. So we’re going to keep pressing the Security Council to help improve the delivery of humanitarian aid to those who are in such desperate need, and to ensure accountability, including continuing to monitor any potential use of chemical weapons in Syria. And we’re going to work in the U.N. General Assembly as well, both on accountability and to advance a political settlement. 令人遗憾但并不意外的是，俄罗斯一再阻止安理会就这些问题采取行动。因此，我们将继续推动安理会帮助改善向那些迫切需要的人提供人道主义援助，并确保问责制，包括继续监测叙利亚可能使用化学武器的情况。我们还将在联合国大会开展工作，既推动问责制，也推进政治解决。
Because it should be clear that although you may achieve tactical victories, over the long term the Assad regime cannot slaughter its way to legitimacy. 因为应该清楚的是，尽管你可能取得战术上的胜利，但从长远来看，阿萨德政权无法通过屠杀来获得合法性。
That’s why we'll continue to press for a transition to a more representative government. And that’s why the world must not avert our eyes to the terrible events that are unfolding. The Syrian regime and its Russian and Iranian allies are trying to obfuscate the truth. The world should not be fooled. And the world will not forget. 这就是为什么我们将继续推动向更具代表性的政府过渡。这就是为什么世界不能对正在发生的可怕事件视而不见。叙利亚政权及其俄罗斯和伊朗盟友正试图混淆真相。世界不应被愚弄。世界不会忘记。
So even in a season where the incredible blessings that we know as Americans are all around us, even as we enjoy family and friends and are reminded of how lucky we are, we should also be reminded that to be an American involves bearing burdens and meeting obligations to others. American values and American ideals are what will lead the way to a safer and more prosperous 2017, both here and abroad. 因此，即使在这个我们作为美国人所享有的不可思议的祝福无处不在的季节，即使我们享受着家人和朋友的陪伴，想起我们有多么幸运，我们也应该被提醒，作为美国人意味着承担重担，履行对他人的义务。美国的价值观和美国的理想将引领我们走向一个更安全、更繁荣的2017年，无论是在国内还是在国外。
And by the way, few embody those values and ideals like our brave men and women in uniform and their families. So I just want to close by wishing all of them a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. 顺便说一句，很少有人能像我们勇敢的男女军人及其家属那样体现这些价值观和理想。所以我最后想祝他们所有人圣诞快乐，新年快乐。
With that, I will take some questions. And I'm going to start with Josh Lederman, of AP. 好了，现在我来回答问题。先请美联社的乔希·莱德曼提问。
Question: Thank you, Mr. President. There’s a perception that you're letting President Putin get away with interfering in the U.S. election, and that a response that nobody knows about or a lookback review just won’t cut it. Are you prepared to call out President Putin by name for ordering this hacking? And do you agree with what Hillary Clinton now says, that the hacking was actually partly responsible for her loss? And is your Administration’s open quarreling with Trump and his team on this issue tarnishing the smooth transition of power that you have promised? 问：谢谢您，总统先生。有一种看法认为，您在放任普京总统干预美国大选，而那种没人知道的回应或回溯审查根本不够。您准备好直接点名指责普京总统下令实施这次黑客攻击了吗？您同意希拉里·克林顿现在的说法吗——即黑客攻击实际上是她败选的部分原因？您的政府与特朗普及其团队在这个问题上的公开争执，是否会损害您承诺的平稳权力过渡？
President Obama: Well, first of all, with respect to the transition, I think they would be the first to acknowledge that we have done everything we can to make sure that they are successful as I promised. And that will continue. And it’s just been a few days since I last talked to the President-elect about a whole range of transition issues. That cooperation is going to continue. 奥巴马总统：首先，关于权力过渡，我想他们会第一个承认，我们已经尽了一切努力确保他们取得成功，正如我承诺的那样。这一点将继续下去。就在几天前，我还和候任总统就一系列过渡问题进行了交谈。这种合作将继续下去。
There hasn’t been a lot of squabbling. What we’ve simply said is the facts, which are that, based on uniform intelligence assessments, the Russians were responsible for hacking the DNC, and that, as a consequence, it is important for us to review all elements of that and make sure that we are preventing that kind of interference through cyberattacks in the future. 并没有什么争吵。我们只是在陈述事实，那就是，根据统一的情报评估，俄罗斯应对黑入民主党全国委员会负责，因此，我们重要的是全面审查此事的各个方面，确保我们未来防止这种通过网络攻击进行的干预。
That should be a bipartisan issue; that shouldn’t be a partisan issue. And my hope is that the President-elect is going to similarly be concerned with making sure that we don’t have potential foreign influence in our election process. I don’t think any American wants that. And that shouldn’t be a source of an argument. 这应该是一个两党共识的问题；这不应该是一个党派问题。我的希望是，候任总统也会同样关注确保我们的选举进程不受到潜在的外国影响。我认为没有任何美国人希望那样。这不应该成为争论的焦点。
I think that part of the challenge is that it gets caught up in the carryover from election season. And I think it is very important for us to distinguish between the politics of the election and the need for us, as a country, both from a national security perspective but also in terms of the integrity of our election system and our democracy, to make sure that we don’t create a political football here. 我认为部分挑战在于，这件事被卷入了选举季的余波之中。我认为我们非常重要的一点是，要将选举政治与我们作为一个国家的需求区分开来——无论是从国家安全角度，还是从我们选举制度和民主的完整性角度——确保我们不把这里变成一个政治皮球。
Now, with respect to how this thing unfolded last year, let’s just go through the facts pretty quickly. At the beginning of the summer, we’re alerted to the possibility that the DNC has been hacked, and I immediately order law enforcement as well as our intelligence teams to find out everything about it, investigate it thoroughly, to brief the potential victims of this hacking, to brief on a bipartisan basis the leaders of both the House and the Senate and the relevant intelligence committees. 现在，关于去年这件事是如何发展的，让我们快速回顾一下事实。夏初，我们收到警报，称民主党全国委员会可能遭到黑客攻击，我立即下令执法部门以及我们的情报团队彻查此事，进行全面调查，向潜在的黑客攻击受害者通报情况，向参众两院两党领袖和相关情报委员会通报情况。
And once we had clarity and certainty around what, in fact, had happened, we publicly announced that, in fact, Russia had hacked into the DNC. 当我们对实际发生的事情有了清晰和确定的认识后，我们公开宣布，事实上俄罗斯黑入了民主党全国委员会。
And at that time, we did not attribute motives or any interpretations of why they had done so. We didn’t discuss what the effects of it might be. We simply let people know -- the public know, just as we had let members of Congress know -- that this had happened. 当时，我们没有归因动机，也没有对他们为什么这样做做任何解读。我们没有讨论这可能产生什么影响。我们只是让人们知道——让公众知道，就像我们告知国会议员一样——这件事发生了。
And as a consequence, all of you wrote a lot of stories about both what had happened, and then you interpreted why that might have happened and what effect it was going to have on the election outcomes. We did not. 结果，你们都写了很多报道，既报道了发生了什么，也解读了为什么会发生，以及这会对选举结果产生什么影响。我们没有。
And the reason we did not was because in this hyper-partisan atmosphere, at a time when my primary concern was making sure that the integrity of the election process was not in any way damaged, at a time when anything that was said by me or anybody in the White House would immediately be seen through a partisan lens, I wanted to make sure that everybody understood we were playing this thing straight -- that we weren’t trying to advantage one side or another, but what we were trying to do was let people know that this had taken place, and so if you started seeing effects on the election, 我们没有这样做的原因是，在这种高度党派化的氛围中，当我最关心的是确保选举过程的完整性不受任何损害时，当我或白宫任何人说的任何话都会立即被透过党派滤镜看待时，我想确保每个人都明白我们是公正行事的——我们没有试图偏袒任何一方，我们只是想让人们知道这件事发生了，这样如果你开始看到对选举的影响，
if you were trying to measure why this was happening and how you should consume the information that was being leaked, that you might want to take this into account. 如果你试图弄清楚为什么会发生这种情况，以及你应该如何消化被泄露的信息，你可能会考虑到这一点。
And that's exactly how we should have handled it. Imagine if we had done the opposite. It would have become immediately just one more political scrum. And part of the goal here was to make sure that we did not do the work of the leakers for them by raising more and more questions about the integrity of the election right before the election was taking place -- at a time, by the way, when the President-elect himself was raising questions about the integrity of the election. 而这正是我们应该采取的处理方式。想象一下如果我们反着来会怎样。它会立刻变成又一场政治乱斗。我们的部分目标是确保我们不会通过在选举前夕对选举的完整性提出越来越多的质疑来帮泄密者的忙——顺便说一句，当时候任总统自己都在质疑选举的完整性。
And, finally, I think it's worth pointing out that the information was already out. It was in the hands of WikiLeaks, so that was going to come out no matter what. What I was concerned about, in particular, was making sure that that wasn’t compounded by potential hacking that could hamper vote counting, affect the actual election process itself. 最后，我认为值得指出的是，信息已经泄露出去了。它在维基解密手中，所以无论怎样它都会被公开。我特别担心的是，确保这不会因为可能的黑客攻击而变得更糟，那些黑客攻击可能会妨碍计票，影响实际的选举进程本身。
And so in early September, when I saw President Putin in China, I felt that the most effective way to ensure that that didn’t happen was to talk to him directly and tell him to cut it out, and there were going to be some serious consequences if he didn’t. And, in fact, we did not see further tampering of the election process. But the leaks through WikiLeaks had already occurred. 因此，9月初，当我在中国见到普京总统时，我觉得确保那种情况不发生的最有效方式，就是直接和他谈谈，告诉他住手，如果他不停手会有严重后果。事实上，我们确实没有看到对选举过程的进一步干预。但通过维基解密的泄密已经发生了。
So when I look back in terms of how we handled it, I think we handled it the way it should have been handled. We allowed law enforcement and the intelligence community to do its job without political influence. We briefed all relevant parties involved in terms of what was taking place. When we had a consensus around what had happened, we announced it -- not through the White House, not through me, but rather through the intelligence communities that had actually carried out these investigations. 所以当我回顾我们的处理方式时，我认为我们的处理是恰当的。我们让执法部门和情报界在没有政治干预的情况下开展工作。我们向所有相关方通报了正在发生的事情。当我们就所发生的事情达成共识时，我们公布了这一点——不是通过白宫，不是通过我，而是通过实际进行这些调查的情报界。
And then we allowed you and the American public to make an assessment as to how to weigh that going into the election. 然后我们让你们和美国公众来评估在选举中如何权衡这件事。
And the truth is, is that there was nobody here who didn’t have some sense of what kind of effect it might have. I'm finding it a little curious that everybody is suddenly acting surprised that this looked like it was disadvantaging Hillary Clinton because you guys wrote about it every day. Every single leak. About every little juicy tidbit of political gossip -- including John Podesta's risotto recipe. This was an obsession that dominated the news coverage. 而事实是，这里没有人不对它可能产生的影响没有某种判断。我觉得有点奇怪的是，每个人都突然表现得好像对这看起来对希拉里·克林顿不利感到惊讶，因为你们每天都在报道这件事。每一次泄密。每一点政治八卦的小细节——包括约翰·波德斯塔的意大利烩饭食谱。这种痴迷主导了新闻报道。
So I do think it's worth us reflecting how it is that a presidential election of such importance, of such moment, with so many big issues at stake and such a contrast between the candidates, came to be dominated by a bunch of these leaks. What is it about our political system that made us vulnerable to these kinds of potential manipulations -- which, as I've said publicly before, were not particularly sophisticated. 因此，我确实认为我们值得反思，一场如此重要、如此重大、涉及如此多大问题、候选人之间差异如此鲜明的总统选举，怎么会被一堆这些泄密事件所主导。我们的政治制度到底出了什么问题，让我们容易受到这种潜在操纵的影响——正如我之前公开说过的，这些操纵并不特别复杂。
This was not some elaborate, complicated espionage scheme. They hacked into some Democratic Party emails that contained pretty routine stuff, some of it embarrassing or uncomfortable, because I suspect that if any of us got our emails hacked into, there might be some things that we wouldn’t want suddenly appearing on the front page of a newspaper or a telecast, even if there wasn’t anything particularly illegal or controversial about it. And then it just took off. 这不是什么精心设计的复杂间谍计划。他们黑入了民主党全国委员会的一些电子邮件，内容都是相当日常的东西，有些令人尴尬或不舒服，因为我猜如果我们任何人的电子邮件被黑，可能都会有一些我们不希望突然出现在报纸头版或电视上的东西，即使其中没有什么特别违法或有争议的内容。然后这事就愈演愈烈了。
And that concerns me. And it should concern all of us. But the truth of the matter is, is that everybody had the information. It was out there. And we handled it the way we should have. 这让我担忧。这应该让我们所有人都担忧。但事实是，每个人都掌握了信息。信息已经公开了。我们的处理是恰当的。
Now, moving forward, I think there are a couple of issues that this raises. Number one is just the constant challenge that we are going to have with cybersecurity throughout our economy and throughout our society. We are a digitalized culture, and there is hacking going on every single day. There’s not a company, there’s not a major organization, there’s not a financial institution, there’s not a branch of our government where somebody is not going to be phishing for something or trying to penetrate, or put in a virus or malware. 展望未来，我认为这引出了几个问题。第一，就是我们在整个经济和整个社会中，网络安全将持续面临的挑战。我们是一个数字化文化，每天都有黑客攻击。没有哪家公司，没有哪个大型组织，没有哪家金融机构，没有哪个政府部门，不会成为某人钓鱼攻击或试图渗透、植入病毒或恶意软件的目标。
And this is why for the last eight years, I’ve been obsessed with how do we continually upgrade our cybersecurity systems. 这就是为什么过去八年来，我一直专注于如何不断升级我们的网络安全系统。
And this particular concern around Russian hacking is part of a broader set of concerns about how do we deal with cyber issues being used in ways that can affect our infrastructure, affect the stability of our financial systems, and affect the integrity of our institutions, like our election process. 对俄罗斯黑客攻击的这种特别担忧，是更广泛担忧的一部分，即我们如何应对网络问题被用于影响我们的基础设施、影响我们金融体系的稳定性，以及影响我们机构的完整性——比如我们的选举进程。
I just received a couple weeks back -- it wasn’t widely reported on -- a report from our cybersecurity commission that outlines a whole range of strategies to do a better job on this. But it’s difficult, because it’s not all housed -- the target of cyberattacks is not one entity but it’s widely dispersed, and a lot of it is private, like the DNC. It’s not a branch of government. We can’t tell people what to do. What we can do is inform them, get best practices. 就在几周前——这事没有被广泛报道——我收到了我们网络安全委员会的一份报告，它概述了一系列更好地应对这一问题的策略。但这很困难，因为它并不都集中在——网络攻击的目标不是一个实体，而是分散很广的，其中很多是私有的，比如民主党全国委员会。它不是政府部门。我们不能告诉人们该做什么。我们能做的是告知他们，推广最佳实践。
What we can also do is to, on a bilateral basis, warn other countries against these kinds of attacks. And we’ve done that in the past. So just as I told Russia to stop it, and indicated there will be consequences when they do it, the Chinese have, in the past, engaged in cyberattacks directed at our companies to steal trade secrets and proprietary technology. And I had to have the same conversation with Prime Minister -- or with President Xi, and what we’ve seen is some evidence that they have reduced -- but not completely eliminated -- these activities, partly because they can use cutouts. 我们还可以做的是，在双边基础上警告其他国家不要进行这类攻击。我们过去这样做过。正如我告诉俄罗斯住手，并表示如果他们这样做会有后果一样，中国过去也曾对我们的公司进行网络攻击，窃取商业机密和专有技术。我不得不与习近平主席进行同样的对话，我们看到的是，有一些证据表明他们减少了——但没有完全消除——这些活动，部分原因是他们可以利用中间人。
One of the problems with the Internet and cyber issues is that there’s not always a return address, and by the time you catch up to it, attributing what happened to a particular government can be difficult, not always provable in court even though our intelligence communities can make an assessment. 互联网和网络问题的一个难题是，并不总是有"回邮地址"，等你追查到的时候，将所发生的事情归因于某个特定政府可能很困难，即使我们的情报界能够做出评估，也不总能在法庭上证明。
What we’ve also tried to do is to start creating some international norms about this to prevent some sort of cyber arms race, because we obviously have offensive capabilities as well as defensive capabilities. And my approach is not a situation in which everybody is worse off because folks are constantly attacking each other back and forth, but putting some guardrails around the behavior of nation-states, including our adversaries, just so that they understand that whatever they do to us we can potentially do to them. 我们还努力做的是，开始建立一些国际规范来防止某种网络军备竞赛，因为我们显然既有进攻能力也有防御能力。我的方针不是一种每个人都因为不断互相攻击而变得更糟的局面，而是为民族国家的行为设置一些护栏，包括我们的对手，就是为了让他们明白，他们对我们做的任何事，我们都有可能对他们做。
We do have some special challenges, because oftentimes our economy is more digitalized, it is more vulnerable, partly because we’re a wealthier nation and we’re more wired than some of these other countries. And we have a more open society, and engage in less control and censorship over what happens over the Internet, which is also part of what makes us special. 我们确实面临一些特殊挑战，因为通常我们的经济更加数字化，也就更加脆弱，部分原因是我们是一个更富裕的国家，我们比其他一些国家更多地联网。我们有一个更加开放的社会，对互联网上发生的事情较少控制和审查，这也是使我们与众不同的部分原因。
Last point -- and the reason I’m going on here is because I know that you guys have a lot of questions about this, and I haven't addressed all of you directly about it. With respect to response, my principal goal leading up to the election was making sure that the election itself went off without a hitch, that it was not tarnished, and that it did not feed any sense in the public that somehow tampering had taken place with the actual process of voting. And we accomplished that. 最后一点——我之所以在这里讲这么多，是因为我知道你们有很多关于这个的问题，而我还没有直接对你们所有人讲过。关于回应，我在选举前的主要目标是确保选举本身顺利进行，不被玷污，不会让公众产生一种感觉，好像投票的实际过程受到了干预。我们实现了这一点。
That does not mean that we are not going to respond. It simply meant that we had a set of priorities leading up to the election that were of the utmost importance. Our goal continues to be to send a clear message to Russia or others not to do this to us, because we can do stuff to you. 这并不意味着我们不会做出回应。这只是意味着，在选举之前，我们有一套最重要的优先事项。我们的目标仍然是向俄罗斯或其他国家发出明确信息，不要对我们这样做，因为我们也有能力对你们做些事情。
But it is also important for us to do that in a thoughtful, methodical way. Some of it we do publicly. Some of it we will do in a way that they know, but not everybody will. And I know that there have been folks out there who suggest somehow that if we went out there and made big announcements, and thumped our chests about a bunch of stuff, that somehow that would potentially spook the Russians. But keep in mind that we already have enormous numbers of sanctions against the Russians. The relationship between us and Russia has deteriorated, sadly, significantly over the last several years. 但我们也必须以深思熟虑、有条不紊的方式来做这件事。有些我们公开做。有些我们会以他们知道但不是每个人都知道的方式做。我知道外面有些人认为，如果我们站出来发表重大声明，拍胸脯炫耀一番，不知怎么就能吓到俄罗斯人。但请记住，我们已经对俄罗斯实施了大量制裁。我们与俄罗斯的关系在过去几年中不幸地显著恶化了。
And so how we approach an appropriate response that increases costs for them for behavior like this in the future, but does not create problems for us, is something that’s worth taking the time to think through and figure out. And that’s exactly what we’ve done. 因此，我们如何采取适当的回应，增加他们未来此类行为的代价，但又不给我们自己制造麻烦，这是值得花时间深思熟虑和弄清楚的。而这正是我们所做的。
So at a point in time where we’ve taken certain actions that we can divulge publically, we will do so. There are times where the message will go -- will be directly received by the Russians and not publicized. And I should point out, by the way, part of why the Russians have been effective on this is because they don't go around announcing what they're doing. It's not like Putin is going around the world publically saying, look what we did, wasn't that clever? He denies it. 所以当我们采取了某些可以公开的行动时，我们会公之于众。有些时候，信息会——会直接被俄罗斯收到，但不会被公开。顺便我要指出，俄罗斯人在这方面之所以有效，部分原因是他们不会到处宣布他们在做什么。不是说普京会在世界各地公开说，看我们做了什么，是不是很聪明？他否认的。
So the idea that somehow public shaming is going to be effective I think doesn't read the thought process in Russia very well. 所以那种认为公开羞辱会有效的想法，我认为并不能很好地解读俄罗斯人的思维方式。
Okay? 好吗？
Question: Did Clinton lose because of the hacking? 问：希拉里是因为黑客攻击才输的吗？
President Obama: I'm going to let all the political pundits in this town have a long discussion about what happened in the election. It was a fascinating election, so I'm sure there are going to be a lot of books written about it. 奥巴马总统：我打算让这个城市的所有政治专家就选举中发生的事情进行长时间讨论。这是一场引人入胜的选举，所以我相信会有很多相关的书面世。
I've said what I think is important for the Democratic Party going forward rather than try to parse every aspect of the election. And I've said before, I couldn't be prouder of Secretary Clinton, her outstanding service. I thinks she's worked tirelessly on behalf of the American people, and I don't think she was treated fairly during the election. I think the coverage of her and the issues was troubling. 我已经说了我认为对民主党未来重要的事情，而不是试图剖析选举的每个方面。我之前说过，我对克林顿国务卿无比骄傲，为她杰出的服务。我认为她为美国人民不知疲倦地工作，我认为她在选举中没有得到公平对待。我认为对她和相关议题的报道令人担忧。
But having said that, what I've been most focused on -- appropriate for the fact that I'm not going to be a politician in about, what is it, 32 days? 31? 但话虽如此，我最关注的是——考虑到大约还有多少天我就不再是政治家了——32天？31天？
Question: Thirty-four. 问：34天。
President Obama: Thirty four? But what I've said is, is that I can maybe give some counsel and advice to the Democratic Party. And I think that that the thing we have to spend the most time on -- because it's the thing we have the most control over -- is how do we make sure that we are showing up in places where I think Democratic policies are needed, where they are helping, where they are making a difference, but where people feel as if they're not being heard and where Democrats are characterized as coastal, liberal, latte-sipping, politically-correct, out-of-touch folks. 奥巴马总统：34天？但我所说的是，我或许可以给民主党提供一些建议和忠告。我认为我们最需要花时间的事情——因为这是我们最能掌控的事情——是我们如何确保出现在那些我认为民主党政策被需要、正在发挥帮助作用、正在产生影响的地方，但在那些地方，人们觉得自己的声音没有被听到，民主党人被描绘成沿海的、自由派的、喝拿铁的、政治正确的、脱离实际的人。
We have to be in those communities. And I've seen that when we are in those communities, it makes a difference. 我们必须出现在那些社区里。我已经看到，当我们出现在那些社区时，会产生不同的效果。
That's how I became President. I became a U.S. senator not just because I had a strong base in Chicago, but because I was driving around downstate Illinois and going to fish frys and sitting in VFW halls and talking to farmers. 我就是这样成为总统的。我成为一名联邦参议员，不仅是因为我在芝加哥有强大的基础，还因为我开车在伊利诺伊州南部各处跑，去参加炸鱼聚餐，坐在退伍军人协会大厅里，和农民交谈。
And I didn't win every one of their votes, but they got a sense of what I was talking about, what I cared about, that I was for working people, that I was for the middle class, that the reason I was interested in strengthening unions, and raising the minimum wage, and rebuilding our infrastructure, and making sure that parents had decent childcare and family leave was because my own family's history wasn't that different from theirs, even if I looked a little bit different. Same thing in Iowa. 我没有赢得他们每一张选票，但他们了解了我在说什么、我关心什么，了解了我是为劳动人民着想的，我是为中产阶级着想的，了解了我之所以想要加强工会、提高最低工资、重建基础设施、确保父母有体面的托儿服务和家庭假，是因为我自己的家庭历史和他们的并没有太大不同，即使我看起来有点不一样。在爱荷华州也是一样。
And so the question is, how do we rebuild that party as a whole so that there's not a county in any state -- I don't care how red -- that we don't have a presence and we're not making the argument. Because I think we have the better argument. But that requires a lot of work. It's been something that I've been able to do successfully in my own campaigns. It is not something I've been able to transfer to candidates in midterms and sort of build a sustaining organization around. 所以问题是，我们如何从整体上重建这个政党，使得在任何州的任何一个县——不管它有多"红"——我们都有存在感，我们都在阐述我们的主张。因为我认为我们有更好的主张。但这需要大量的工作。这是我在自己的竞选活动中能够成功做到的事情。这不是我能够在中期选举中传递给候选人、并围绕它建立一个可持续组织的事情。
That's something that I would have liked to have done more of, but it's kind of hard to do when you're also dealing with a whole bunch of issues here in the White House. 那是我希望我能做得更多的事情，但当你还要在白宫处理一大堆问题时，这很难做到。
And that doesn't mean, though, that it can't be done. And I think there are going to be a lot of talented folks out there, a lot of progressives who share my values who are going to be leading the charge in the years to come. 但这并不意味着这做不到。我认为会有很多有才华的人，很多和我有共同价值观的进步派人士，将在未来几年带头冲锋。
Michelle Kosinski of CNN. CNN的米歇尔·科辛斯基。
Question: Thank you. So this week we heard Hillary Clinton talk about how she thinks that the FBI Director's most recent announcement made a difference in the outcome of the election. And we also just heard in an op-ed her campaign chairman talk about something being deeply broken within the FBI. He talked about thinking that the investigation early on was lackadaisical in his words. So what do you think about those comments? Do you think there's any truth to them? 问：谢谢。本周我们听到希拉里·克林顿谈到，她认为联邦调查局局长最近的声明对选举结果产生了影响。我们还刚刚在一篇专栏文章中听到她的竞选主席说，联邦调查局内部存在严重问题。他说，他认为早期的调查用他的话来说是"懒散的"。您对这些评论有什么看法？您认为其中有道理吗？
Do you think there's a danger there that they're calling into question the integrity of institutions in a similar way that Donald Trump's team has done? 您是否担心他们这样做是在质疑机构的完整性，与唐纳德·特朗普团队的做法如出一辙？
And the second part to that is that Donald Trump's team repeatedly -- I guess, giving the indication that the investigation of the Russian hack, as well as the retaliation, might not be such a priority once he's in office, so what do you think the risk is there? And are you going to talk to him directly about some of those comments he made? 第二部分是，唐纳德·特朗普的团队一再——我猜是在表示，俄罗斯黑客攻击的调查以及报复行动，在他上任后可能不会那么优先考虑，您认为其中有什么风险？您会直接和他谈谈他发表的其中一些言论吗？
President Obama: Well, on the latter point, as I said before, the transition from election season to governance season is not always smooth. It's bumpy. There are still feelings that are raw out there. There are people who are still thinking about how things unfolded. And I get all that. But when Donald Trump takes the Oath of Office and is sworn as the 45th President of the United States, then he's got a different set of responsibilities and considerations. 奥巴马总统：关于后一点，正如我之前所说，从选举季到执政季的过渡并不总是一帆风顺的。会有颠簸。人们的情绪仍然很激动。人们还在思考事情是如何发展的。我都理解。但当唐纳德·特朗普宣誓就职，成为美国第45任总统时，他就有了一套不同的责任和考量。
And I've said this before: I think there is a sobering process when you walk into the Oval Office. And I haven’t shared previously private conversations I've had with the President-elect. I will say that they have been cordial and, in some cases, have involved me making some pretty specific suggestions about how to ensure that regardless of our obvious deep disagreements about policy, maybe I can transmit some thoughts about maintaining the effectiveness, integrity, cohesion of the office, of various democratic institutions. And he has listened. 我之前说过：当你走进椭圆形办公室时，会有一个清醒的过程。我之前没有分享过我与候任总统的私人谈话。我可以说的是，谈话一直是友好的，在某些情况下，我提出了一些相当具体的建议，关于如何确保，尽管我们在政策上显然存在深刻分歧，但也许我可以传递一些关于维护办公室、各种民主制度的有效性、完整性和凝聚力的想法。而他听了。
I can't say that he will end up implementing, but the conversations themselves have been cordial as opposed to defensive in any way. And I will always make myself available to him, just as previous Presidents have made themselves available to me as issues come up. 我不能说他最终会实施，但谈话本身一直是友好的，而不是任何形式的防御性的。我将随时向他提供帮助，就像历届总统在问题出现时都愿意帮助我一样。
With respect to the FBI, I will tell you, I've had a chance to know a lot of FBI agents, I know Director Comey, and they take their job seriously, they work really hard, they help keep us safe and save a lot of lives. And it is always a challenge for law enforcement when there's an intersection between the work that they are doing and the political system. It's one of the difficulties of democracy, generally. 关于联邦调查局，我可以告诉你们，我有机会认识了很多联邦调查局探员，我认识科米局长，他们认真对待自己的工作，他们非常努力，他们帮助保护我们的安全，拯救了很多生命。对于执法部门来说，当他们的工作与政治制度产生交集时，这始终是一个挑战。这通常是民主的困难之一。
We have a system where we want our law enforcement investigators and our prosecutors to be free from politics, to be independent, to play it straight, but sometimes that involves investigations that touch on politics. And particularly in this hyper-partisan environment that we've been in, everything is suspect, everything you do one way or the other. 我们的制度要求我们的执法调查人员和检察官不受政治影响，保持独立，公正行事，但有时涉及的调查会触及政治。尤其是在我们所处的这种高度党派化的环境中，一切都受到怀疑，你做的每一件事都会被这样或那样地解读。
One thing that I have done is to be pretty scrupulous about not wading into investigation decisions or prosecution decisions, or decisions not to prosecute. I have tried to be really strict in my own behavior about preserving the independence of law enforcement, free from my own judgments and political assessments, in some cases. And I don’t know why it would stop now. 我所做的一件事是，非常谨慎地不介入调查决定或起诉决定，或不起诉的决定。我一直努力在自己的行为中严格保持执法的独立性，不受我自己的判断和政治评估的影响，在某些情况下。我不知道为什么现在要停止。
Mike Dorning of Bloomberg. 彭博社的迈克·多宁。
Question: Thank you, Mr. President. On Aleppo, your views that what happens there is the responsibility of the Russian government, the Iranian government, the Assad regime are pretty well aired. But do you, as President of the United States, leader of the free world, feel any personal moral responsibility now at the end of your presidency for the carnage that we’re all watching in Aleppo, which I’m sure disturbs you -- which you said disturbs you? 问：谢谢您，总统先生。关于阿勒颇，您认为那里发生的事情应由俄罗斯政府、伊朗政府、阿萨德政权负责，这一观点已经表达得很充分了。但是，作为美国总统、自由世界的领袖，在您总统任期即将结束之际，对于我们所有人都在目睹的阿勒颇的大屠杀——我知道这让您不安——您说过这让您不安——您是否感到任何个人的道德责任？
And, secondly, also on Aleppo, you’ve again made clear your practical disagreements with the idea of safe zones. And President-elect Trump has, throughout his campaign, and he said again last night that he wants to create safe zones in Syria. Do you feel like, in this transition, you need to help him toward implementing that? Or was that not something that you should be doing? 第二，同样关于阿勒颇，您再次明确表示了您对安全区想法的实际不同意见。候任总统特朗普在竞选期间一直表示，他昨晚又说了一遍，他想在叙利亚建立安全区。您觉得在这个过渡时期，您需要帮助他落实这一点吗？还是说那不是您应该做的事情？
President Obama: Mike, I always feel responsible. I felt responsible when kids were being shot by snipers. I felt responsible when millions of people had been displaced. I feel responsible for murder and slaughter that’s taken place in South Sudan that’s not being reported on partly because there’s not as much social media being generated from there. 奥巴马总统：迈克，我一直都感到有责任。当孩子们被狙击手射杀时，我感到有责任。当数百万人流离失所时，我感到有责任。我对南苏丹发生的谋杀和屠杀感到有责任，这些没有被报道，部分原因是那里没有产生那么多社交媒体内容。
There are places around the world where horrible things are happening, and because of my office, because I’m President of the United States, I feel responsible. I ask myself every single day, is there something I could do that would save lives and make a difference and spare some child who doesn’t deserve to suffer. 世界上有很多地方正在发生可怕的事情，因为我的职位，因为我是美国总统，我感到有责任。我每天都在问自己，有没有什么我可以做的事情来拯救生命、改变局面、让某个不该受苦的孩子免于苦难。
So that’s a starting point. There’s not a moment during the course of this presidency where I haven’t felt some responsibility. That’s true, by the way, for our own country. When I came into office and people were losing their jobs and losing their homes and losing their pensions, I felt responsible, and I would go home at night and I would ask myself, was there something better that I could do or smarter that I could be that would make a difference in their lives, that would relieve their suffering and relieve their hardship. 这是一个出发点。在我的总统任期内，没有一刻我不感到某种责任。顺便说一句，对我们自己的国家也是如此。当我上任时，人们失去工作、失去家园、失去养老金，我感到有责任，我晚上回家时会问自己，有没有什么更好的事情我可以做，或者更聪明的做法，可以改变他们的生活，可以减轻他们的痛苦和困难。
So with respect to Syria, what I have consistently done is taken the best course that I can to try to end the civil war while having also to take into account the long-term national security interests of the United States. 关于叙利亚，我一贯的做法是，在必须同时考虑美国长期国家安全利益的情况下，采取我能采取的最佳方案来努力结束内战。
And throughout this process, based on hours of meetings, if you tallied it up, days or weeks of meetings where we went through every option in painful detail, with maps, and we had our military, and we had our aid agencies, and we had our diplomatic teams, and sometimes we’d bring in outsiders who were critics of ours -- whenever we went through it, the challenge was that, short of putting large numbers of U.S. troops on the ground, uninvited, without any international law mandate, without sufficient support from Congress, 在整个过程中，基于数小时的会议——如果你把它们加起来，有数天或数周的会议，我们详细讨论了每一个选项，带着地图，我们有军方，我们有援助机构，我们有外交团队，有时我们还会请来外部的批评者——每当我们仔细研究时，挑战在于，除非在没有邀请、没有国际法授权、没有国会充分支持的情况下，在地面部署大量美军，
at a time when we still had troops in Afghanistan and we still had troops in Iraq, and we had just gone through over a decade of war and spent trillions of dollars, and when the opposition on the ground was not cohesive enough to necessarily govern a country, and you had a military superpower in Russia prepared to do whatever it took to keeps its client-state involved, and you had a regional military power in Iran that saw their own vital strategic interests at stake and were willing to send in as many of their people or proxies to support the regime -- that in that circumstance, 而当时我们在阿富汗还有部队，在伊拉克还有部队，我们刚刚经历了十多年的战争，花了数万亿美元，而当时地面上的反对派还不够团结，不足以治理一个国家，而且俄罗斯这个军事超级大国准备不惜一切代价维持其附庸国的参与，伊朗这个地区军事大国认为自己的重大战略利益受到威胁，愿意派出尽可能多的人员或代理人来支持该政权——在那种情况下，
unless we were all in and willing to take over Syria, we were going to have problems, and that everything else was tempting because we wanted to do something and it sounded like the right thing to do, but it was going to be impossible to do this on the cheap. 除非我们全力投入并愿意接管叙利亚，否则我们就会遇到问题，而其他所有方案都很诱人，因为我们想做点什么，听起来像是正确的事情，但不可能低成本地做到。
And in that circumstance, I have to make a decision as President of the United States as to what is best -- I’m sorry, what’s going on? Somebody’s not feeling good? All right. Why don’t we have -- we’ve got -- we can get our doctors back there to help out. Does somebody want to go to my doctor’s office and just have them -- all right -- where was I? 在那种情况下，我必须作为美国总统做出决定，什么才是最好的——对不起，怎么了？有人不舒服吗？好的。我们——我们可以让我们的医生过去帮忙。有人想去我的医生办公室让他们——好的——我说到哪了？
Question: Doing it on the cheap. 问：低成本地做到。
President Obama: So we couldn’t do it on the cheap. Now, it may be -- 奥巴马总统：所以我们不能低成本地做到。现在，可能是——
Can somebody help out please and get Doc Jackson in here? Is somebody grabbing our doctor? 请有人过去帮忙，把杰克逊医生叫过来好吗？有人去找我们的医生了吗？
Question: Thank you, Mr. President, for stopping. 问：谢谢您，总统先生，您停下来了。
President Obama: Of course. In the meantime, just give her a little room. The doctor will be here in a second. You guys know where the doctor’s office is? Just go through the Palm doors. It’s right next to the Map Room. There he is. All right, there’s Doc Jackson. He’s all right. Okay. The doctor is in the house. 奥巴马总统：当然。同时，给她一点空间。医生马上就到。你们知道医生办公室在哪吗？穿过棕榈门。就在地图室旁边。他来了。好的，杰克逊医生来了。没事的。好的。医生来了。
Question: You were saying you couldn’t do it on the cheap. 问：您刚才说不能低成本地做到。
President Obama: And I don’t mean that -- I mean that with all sincerity. I understand the impulse to want to do something. But ultimately, what I’ve had to do is to think about what can we sustain, what is realistic. And my first priority has to be what’s the right thing to do for America. 奥巴马总统：我的意思是——我是非常真诚地这么说的。我理解想要做些什么的冲动。但归根结底，我必须做的是思考什么是我们可以维持的，什么是现实的。我的首要任务必须是什么对美国才是正确的。
And it has been our view that the best thing to do has been to provide some support to the moderate opposition so that they could sustain themselves, and that we wouldn’t see anti-Assad regime sentiments just pouring into al Nusra and al Qaeda or ISIL; that we engaged our international partners in order to put pressure on all the parties involved, and to try to resolve this through diplomatic and political means. 我们的观点一直是，最好的做法是向温和派反对派提供一些支持，让他们能够维持下去，这样我们就不会看到反阿萨德政权的情绪全都涌入努斯拉阵线、基地组织或伊斯兰国；我们让我们的国际伙伴参与进来，向所有相关方施加压力，并努力通过外交和政治手段解决这个问题。
I cannot claim that we’ve been successful. And so that’s something that, as is true with a lot of issues and problems around the world, I have to go to bed with every night. But I continue to believe that it was the right approach, given what realistically we could get done absent a decision, as I said, to go in a much more significant way. And that, I think, would not have been sustainable or good for the American people because we had a whole host of other obligations that we also had to meet, wars we had already started and that were not yet finished. 我不能声称我们已经成功了。所以，就像世界上很多问题和困难一样，这是我每天晚上都要带着上床的事情。但我仍然相信，考虑到我们现实中能够做到的——正如我所说，除非决定以更重大的方式介入——这是正确的做法。而我认为，那对美国人民来说将是不可持续的或不利的，因为我们还有一大堆其他义务要履行，还有我们已经开始但尚未结束的战争。
With respect to the issue of safe zones, it is a continued problem. A continued challenge with safe zones is if you’re setting up those zones on Syrian territory, then that requires some force that is willing to maintain that territory in the absence of consent from the Syrian government and, now, the Russians or the Iranians. 关于安全区问题，这仍然是一个持续存在的问题。安全区的持续挑战在于，如果你在叙利亚领土上建立这些区域，那就需要一些部队愿意在没有叙利亚政府、而且现在没有俄罗斯或伊朗同意的情况下维持那片领土。
So it may be that with Aleppo’s tragic situation unfolding, that in the short term, if we can get more of the tens of thousands who are still trapped there out, that so long as the world’s eyes are on them and they are feeling pressure, the regime and Russia concludes that they are willing to find some arrangement, perhaps in coordination with Turkey, whereby those people can be safe. Even that will probably be temporary, but at least it solves a short-term issue that’s going to arise. 因此，随着阿勒颇悲惨局势的发展，短期内可能的情况是，如果我们能让仍被困在那里的数万人中更多的人出来，只要全世界的目光都注视着他们、他们感到压力，政权和俄罗斯就会得出结论，他们愿意找到某种安排，也许是与土耳其协调，让这些人获得安全。即便如此，这可能也只是暂时的，但至少解决了即将出现的短期问题。
Unfortunately, we’re not even there yet, because right now we have Russians and Assad claiming that basically all the innocent civilians who were trapped in Aleppo are out when international organizations, humanitarian organizations who know better and who are on the ground have said unequivocally that there are still tens of thousands who are trapped and prepared to leave under pretty much any conditions. And so right now, our biggest priority is to continue to put pressure wherever we can to try to get them out. 不幸的是，我们甚至还没到那一步，因为现在俄罗斯人和阿萨德声称，基本上所有被困在阿勒颇的无辜平民都已经出来了，而国际组织、更了解情况且在实地的人道主义组织明确表示，仍有数万人被困，他们几乎愿意在任何条件下离开。所以现在，我们的首要任务是继续尽我们所能施加压力，设法让他们出来。
Question: Notwithstanding -- 问：尽管——
President Obama: I can’t have too much -- 奥巴马总统：我不能太——
Question: On the second question, your intentions are well aired, but do you feel responsibility notwithstanding a move in that direction or help President-elect Trump move in that direction? 问：关于第二个问题，您的意图已经表达得很清楚了，但您是否感到有责任——尽管朝那个方向迈进——还是帮助候任总统特朗普朝那个方向迈进？
President Obama: I will help President Trump -- President-elect Trump with any advice, counsel, information that we can provide so that he, once he’s sworn in, can make a decision. Between now and then, these are decisions that I have to make based on the consultations I have with our military and the people who have been working this every single day. 奥巴马总统：我将向特朗普总统——候任总统特朗普——提供任何我们能提供的建议、咨询和信息，以便他在宣誓就职后能够做出决定。在此之前，这些是我必须根据与军方以及每天都在处理这件事的人们的磋商来做出的决定。
Peter Alexander. 彼得·亚历山大。
Question: Mr. President, thank you very much. Can you, given all the intelligence that we have now heard, assure the public that this was, once and for all, a free and fair election? And specifically on Russia, do you feel any obligation now, as they’ve been insisting that this isn’t the case, to show the proof, as it were -- they say put your money where your mouth is and declassify some of the intelligence, some of the evidence that exists? 问：总统先生，非常感谢您。鉴于我们现在听到的所有情报，您能向公众保证这次选举是一劳永逸的自由公正的吗？特别是关于俄罗斯，您现在是否觉得有义务——既然他们一直坚称不是这样——展示证据，可以这么说——他们说要拿出真凭实据，解密一些情报，一些现有的证据？
And more broadly, as it relates to Donald Trump on this very topic, are you concerned about his relationship with Vladimir Putin, especially given some of the recent Cabinet picks, including his selection for Secretary of State, Rex Tillerson, who toasted Putin with champagne over oil deals together? Thank you. 更广泛地说，关于唐纳德·特朗普在这个问题上的态度，您是否担心他与弗拉基米尔·普京的关系，特别是考虑到最近的一些内阁人选，包括他选定的国务卿雷克斯·蒂勒森，此人曾与普京就石油交易举杯共饮？谢谢。
President Obama: I may be getting older, because these multipart questions, I start losing track. 奥巴马总统：我可能年纪大了，因为这些多部分的问题，我开始记不住了。
I can assure the public that there was not the kind of tampering with the voting process that was of concern and will continue to be of concern going forward; that the votes that were cast were counted, they were counted appropriately. We have not seen evidence of machines being tampered with. So that assurance I can provide. 我可以向公众保证，没有那种令人担忧的、未来将继续令人担忧的对投票过程的干预；投出的选票被统计了，统计是恰当的。我们没有看到机器被篡改的证据。所以这一点我可以保证。
That doesn’t mean that we find every single potential probe of every single voting machine all across the country, but we paid a lot of attention to it. We worked with state officials, et cetera, and we feel confident that that didn’t occur and that the votes were cast and they were counted. 这并不意味着我们对全国各地每一台投票机的每一次潜在探测都了如指掌，但我们给予了大量关注。我们与州官员合作，等等，我们有信心那种情况没有发生，选票被投出了，也被统计了。
So that’s on that point. What was the second one? 这是关于那一点的。第二个问题是什么来着？
Question: The second one was about declassification. 问：第二个问题是关于解密的。
President Obama: Declassification. Look, we will provide evidence that we can safely provide that does not compromise sources and methods. But I’ll be honest with you, when you’re talking about cybersecurity, a lot of it is classified. And we’re not going to provide it because the way we catch folks is by knowing certain things about them that they may not want us to know, and if we’re going to monitor this stuff effectively going forward, we don’t want them to know that we know. 奥巴马总统：解密。听着，我们将提供我们可以安全提供的、不会危及消息来源和方法的证据。但我跟你们说实话，当你谈论网络安全时，很多都是机密的。我们不会提供，因为我们抓住这些人的方式是通过知道某些他们可能不想让我们知道的事情，如果我们要在未来有效地监控这些事情，我们不想让他们知道我们知道。
So this is one of those situations where unless the American people genuinely think that the professionals in the CIA, the FBI, our entire intelligence infrastructure -- many of whom, by the way, served in previous Administrations and who are Republicans -- are less trustworthy than the Russians, then people should pay attention to what our intelligence agencies have to say. 所以这就是那种情况——除非美国人民真的认为中央情报局、联邦调查局、我们整个情报体系的专业人员——顺便说一句，其中很多人曾在往届政府任职，而且是共和党人——不如俄罗斯人值得信任，那么人们应该关注我们情报机构要说的话。
This is part of what I meant when I said that we’ve got to think about what’s happening to our political culture here. The Russians can’t change us or significantly weaken us. They are a smaller country. They are a weaker country. Their economy doesn’t produce anything that anybody wants to buy, except oil and gas and arms. They don’t innovate. 这就是我所说的我们必须思考我们的政治文化在这里发生了什么的部分原因。俄罗斯人不能改变我们或显著削弱我们。他们是一个较小的国家。他们是一个较弱的国家。他们的经济不生产任何人想买的东西，除了石油、天然气和武器。他们不创新。
But they can impact us if we lose track of who we are. They can impact us if we abandon our values. Mr. Putin can weaken us, just like he’s trying to weaken Europe, if we start buying into notions that it’s okay to intimidate the press, or lock up dissidents, or discriminate against people because of their faith or what they look like. 但如果我们忘记了我们是谁，他们就能影响我们。如果我们放弃我们的价值观，他们就能影响我们。普京先生可以削弱我们，就像他试图削弱欧洲一样，如果我们开始接受这样的观念——恐吓媒体是可以的，或者关押持不同政见者是可以的，或者因为人们的信仰或长相而歧视他们是可以的。
And what I worry about more than anything is the degree to which, because of the fierceness of the partisan battle, you start to see certain folks in the Republican Party and Republican voters suddenly finding a government and individuals who stand contrary to everything that we stand for as being okay because that’s how much we dislike Democrats. 而我最担心的是，由于党派斗争的激烈程度，你开始看到共和党和共和党选民中的某些人突然觉得，一个与我们所主张的一切背道而驰的政府和个人是可以接受的，因为我们太不喜欢民主党人了。
I mean, think about it. Some of the people who historically have been very critical of me for engaging with the Russians and having conversations with them also endorsed the President-elect, even as he was saying that we should stop sanctioning Russia and being tough on them, and work together with them against our common enemies. He was very complimentary of Mr. Putin personally. 我的意思是，想想看。一些历史上一直因为我与俄罗斯接触、与他们对话而严厉批评我的人，也支持了候任总统，尽管他说我们应该停止制裁俄罗斯、不对他们强硬，而是与他们合作对付我们共同的敌人。他对普京先生本人非常恭维。
That wasn’t news. The President-elect during the campaign said so. And some folks who had made a career out of being anti-Russian didn’t say anything about it. And then after the election, suddenly they’re asking, well, why didn’t you tell us that maybe the Russians were trying to help our candidate? Well, come on. There was a survey, some of you saw, where -- now, this is just one poll, but a pretty credible source -- 37 percent of Republican voters approve of Putin. Over a third of Republican voters approve of Vladimir Putin, the former head of the KGB. 那不是新闻。候任总统在竞选期间就这么说了。而一些以反俄为职业的人当时什么也没说。然后选举之后，他们突然问，嗯，你为什么不告诉我们俄罗斯人可能在帮助我们的候选人？得了吧。有一项调查，你们有些人看到了——现在，这只是一项民调，但来源相当可信——37%的共和党选民认可普京。超过三分之一的共和党选民认可弗拉基米尔·普京，这位克格勃前头目。
Ronald Reagan would roll over in his grave. 罗纳德·里根会在坟墓里翻身的。
And how did that happen? It happened in part because, for too long, everything that happens in this town, everything that’s said is seen through the lens of "does this help or hurt us relative to Democrats, or relative to President Obama?" And unless that changes, we’re going to continue to be vulnerable to foreign influence, because we’ve lost track of what it is that we’re about and what we stand for. 这是怎么发生的？部分原因是，长期以来，这个城市发生的每一件事，说的每一句话，都被透过"这对我们相对于民主党人、相对于奥巴马总统是有利还是有害"的滤镜来看待。除非这种情况改变，否则我们将继续容易受到外国影响，因为我们已经忘记了我们是谁、我们主张什么。
With respect to the President-elect’s appointments, it is his prerogative, as I’ve always said, for him to appoint who he thinks can best carry out his foreign policy or his domestic policy. It is up to the Senate to advise and consent. There will be plenty of time for members of the Senate to go through the record of all his appointees and determine whether or not they’re appropriate for the job. 关于候任总统的任命，正如我一直说的，任命他认为最能执行其外交政策或国内政策的人是他的特权。参议院有权提供意见和同意。参议员们有充足的时间来审查他所有被任命者的记录，确定他们是否适合这份工作。
Martha Raddatz. 玛莎·拉达茨。
Question: Mr. President, I want to talk about Vladimir Putin again. Just to be clear, do you believe Vladimir Putin himself authorized the hack? And do you believe he authorized that to help Donald Trump? And on the intelligence, one of the things Donald Trump cites is Saddam Hussein and the weapons of mass destruction, and that they were never found. Can you say, unequivocally, that this was not China, that this was not a 400-pound guy sitting on his bed, as Donald Trump says? And do these types of tweets and kinds of statements from Donald Trump embolden the Russians? 问：总统先生，我想再谈谈弗拉基米尔·普京。明确一点，您认为是弗拉基米尔·普京本人授权了黑客攻击吗？您认为他授权这样做是为了帮助唐纳德·特朗普吗？关于情报，唐纳德·特朗普引用的一个例子是萨达姆·侯赛因和大规模杀伤性武器，说它们从未被发现。您能 unequivocally 地说，这不是中国干的，不是像唐纳德·特朗普说的那样，是一个坐在床上的400磅胖子干的吗？唐纳德·特朗普的这些推文和声明，是否会给俄罗斯壮胆？
President Obama: When the report comes out, before I leave office, that will have drawn together all the threads. And so I don’t want to step on their work ahead of time. 奥巴马总统：在我离任前，当报告发布时，会把所有线索都整合起来。所以我不想抢在他们工作的前面。
What I can tell you is that the intelligence that I have seen gives me great confidence in their assessment that the Russians carried out this hack. 我可以告诉你们的是，我所看到的情报让我对他们关于俄罗斯实施了这次黑客攻击的评估非常有信心。
Question: Which hack? 问：哪次黑客攻击？
President Obama: The hack of the DNC and the hack of John Podesta. 奥巴马总统：民主党全国委员会的黑客攻击，以及约翰·波德斯塔的黑客攻击。
Now, the -- but again, I think this is exactly why I want the report out, so that everybody can review it. And this has been briefed, and the evidence in closed session has been provided on a bipartisan basis -- not just to me, it’s been provided to the leaders of the House and the Senate, and the chairman and ranking members of the relevant committees. And I think that what you’ve already seen is, at least some of the folks who have seen the evidence don’t dispute, I think, the basic assessment that the Russians carried this out. 但是——再说一次，我认为这正是我希望报告发布的原因，这样每个人都可以审查它。而且这已经过通报，闭门会议中的证据已在两党基础上提供——不仅仅是给我，也提供给了参众两院领袖，以及相关委员会的主席和排名成员。我认为你们已经看到，至少一些看过证据的人并不质疑——我认为——俄罗斯人实施了这一行动的基本评估。
Question: But specifically, can you not say that -- 问：但具体来说，您不能说——
President Obama: Well, Martha, I think what I want to make sure of is that I give the intelligence community the chance to gather all the information. But I’d make a larger point, which is, not much happens in Russia without Vladimir Putin. This is a pretty hierarchical operation. Last I checked, there’s not a lot of debate and democratic deliberation, particularly when it comes to policies directed at the United States. 奥巴马总统：玛莎，我想确保的是，我给情报界机会收集所有信息。但我要提出一个更宏观的观点，那就是，在俄罗斯，没有普京的同意，不会发生太多事情。这是一个等级森严的体制。我上次检查时，没有多少辩论和民主审议，特别是当涉及到针对美国的政策时。
We have said, and I will confirm, that this happened at the highest levels of the Russian government. And I will let you make that determination as to whether there are high-level Russian officials who go off rogue and decide to tamper with the U.S. election process without Vladimir Putin knowing about it. 我们已经说过，我将确认，这是在俄罗斯政府的最高层发生的。我会让你们自己判断，有没有俄罗斯高级官员会自作主张，决定干预美国选举进程，而弗拉基米尔·普京对此一无所知。
Question: So I wouldn’t be wrong in saying the President thinks Vladimir Putin authorized the hack? 问：所以说总统认为弗拉基米尔·普京授权了黑客攻击，我没有说错吧？
President Obama: Martha, I’ve given you what I’m going to give you. 奥巴马总统：玛莎，我已经给了你我能给的。
What was your second question? 你的第二个问题是什么来着？
Question: Do the tweets and do the statements by Donald Trump embolden Russia? 问：唐纳德·特朗普的推文和声明会不会给俄罗斯壮胆？
President Obama: As I said before, I think that the President-elect is still in transition mode from campaign to governance. I think he hasn’t gotten his whole team together yet. He still has campaign spokespersons sort of filling in and appearing on cable shows. And there’s just a whole different attitude and vibe when you’re not in power as when you’re in power. 奥巴马总统：正如我之前所说，我认为候任总统仍处于从竞选到执政的过渡模式。我认为他还没有把整个团队组织起来。他还有竞选发言人在有线电视节目上代他发言。当你不在权力位置上和你在权力位置上时，态度和氛围是完全不同的。
So rather than me sort of characterize the appropriateness or inappropriateness of what he’s doing at the moment, I think what we have to see is how will the President-elect operate, and how will his team operate, when they’ve been fully briefed on all these issues, they have their hands on all the levers of government, and they’ve got to start making decisions. 所以，与其让我来评判他目前所做的事情恰当或不恰当，我认为我们要看的是，候任总统和他的团队在全面了解所有这些问题、掌握政府的所有杠杆、必须开始做决策之后，将如何运作。
One way I do believe that the President-elect can approach this that would be unifying is to say that we welcome a bipartisan, independent process that gives the American people an assurance not only that votes are counted properly, that the elections are fair and free, but that we have learned lessons about how Internet propaganda from foreign countries can be released into the political bloodstream and that we’ve got strategies to deal with it for the future. 我确实认为候任总统可以采取的一种具有团结意义的方式是，说我们欢迎一个两党的、独立的程序，让美国人民放心，不仅选票得到了恰当统计、选举是自由公正的，而且我们已经吸取了教训，知道外国的互联网宣传如何能进入政治血液，我们有未来应对的策略。
The more this can be nonpartisan, the better served the American people are going to be, which is why I made the point earlier -- and I’m going to keep on repeating this point: Our vulnerability to Russia or any other foreign power is directly related to how divided, partisan, dysfunctional our political process is. That’s the thing that makes us vulnerable. 这件事越能超越党派，美国人民就越受益，这就是为什么我之前提出了这一点——而且我会继续重复这一点：我们对俄罗斯或任何其他外国势力的脆弱性，直接关系到我们的政治进程有多分裂、多党派化、多机能失调。那才是让我们脆弱的东西。
If fake news that’s being released by some foreign government is almost identical to reports that are being issued through partisan news venues, then it’s not surprising that that foreign propaganda will have a greater effect, because it doesn’t seem that far-fetched compared to some of the other stuff that folks are hearing from domestic propagandists. 如果某个外国政府发布的假新闻，与通过党派新闻渠道发布的报道几乎一模一样，那么外国宣传产生更大效果就不足为奇了，因为与人们从国内宣传者那里听到的其他一些东西相比，它并不显得那么牵强。
To the extent that our political dialogue is such where everything is under suspicion, everybody is corrupt and everybody is doing things for partisan reasons, and all of our institutions are full of malevolent actors -- if that’s the storyline that’s being put out there by whatever party is out of power, then when a foreign government introduces that same argument with facts that are made up, voters who have been listening to that stuff for years, who have been getting that stuff every day from talk radio or other venues, they’re going to believe it. 在某种程度上，我们的政治对话是这样的：一切都受到怀疑，每个人都是腐败的，每个人做事都是出于党派原因，我们所有的机构都充满了恶意行为者——如果这就是在野党所散布的叙事，那么当一个外国政府提出同样的论点、用编造的事实来支持时，那些多年来一直在听这些东西、每天从脱口秀电台或其他渠道获得这些东西的选民，就会相信它。
So if we want to really reduce foreign influence on our elections, then we better think about how to make sure that our political process, our political dialogue is stronger than it’s been. 所以，如果我们真的想减少外国对我们选举的影响，我们最好想想如何确保我们的政治进程、我们的政治对话比现在更强大。
Mark Landler. 马克·兰德勒。
Question: Thank you, Mr. President. I wonder whether I can move you from Russia to China for a moment. 问：谢谢您，总统先生。我能不能请您从俄罗斯问题转到中国问题上。
President Obama: Absolutely. 奥巴马总统：当然可以。
Question: Your successor spoke by phone with the President of Taiwan the other day and declared subsequently that he wasn’t sure why the United States needed to be bound by the one-China policy. He suggested it could be used as a bargaining chip perhaps to get better terms on a trade deal or more cooperation on North Korea. There’s already evidence that tensions between the two sides have increased a bit, and just today, the Chinese have evidently seized an underwater drone in the South China Sea. Do you agree, as some do, that our China policy could use a fresh set of eyes? 问：您的继任者前几天与台湾总统通了电话，随后又表示，他不确定为什么美国需要受一个中国政策的约束。他暗示这可以被用作筹码，也许是为了在贸易协议上获得更好的条件，或在朝鲜问题上获得更多合作。已经有证据表明双方的紧张局势有所加剧，就在今天，中国方面显然在南海扣押了一艘水下无人机。您是否同意一些人的看法，认为我们的对华政策可以用新的眼光来看待？
And what’s the big deal about having a short phone call with the President of Taiwan? Or do you worry that these types of unorthodox approaches are setting us on a collision course with perhaps our biggest geopolitical adversary? 与台湾总统进行一次简短的通话有什么大不了的？还是您担心这些非正统的做法正在让我们走上与也许是我们最大地缘政治对手发生冲突的道路？
President Obama: That’s a great question. I’m somewhere in between. I think all of our foreign policy should be subject to fresh eyes. I think one of the -- I’ve said this before -- I am very proud of the work I’ve done. I think I’m a better President now than when I started. But if you’re here for eight years, in the bubble, you start seeing things a certain way and you benefit from -- the democracy benefits, America benefits from some new perspectives. 奥巴马总统：这是个很好的问题。我的态度介于两者之间。我认为我们所有的外交政策都应该接受新的审视。我认为——我之前说过——我对我所做的工作感到非常自豪。我认为我现在比刚上任时是一个更好的总统。但如果你在这里待了八年，在这个泡沫里，你开始以某种方式看问题，而你会受益于——民主受益于，美国受益于——一些新的视角。
And I think it should be not just the prerogative but the obligation of a new President to examine everything that’s been done and see what makes sense and what doesn’t. That’s what I did when I came in, and I’m assuming any new President is going to undertake those same exercises. 我认为，新任总统不仅有特权，而且有义务审视已经做的一切，看看哪些有意义，哪些没有。我上任时就是这么做的，我想任何新任总统都会做同样的审视。
And given the importance of the relationship between the United States and China, given how much is at stake in terms of the world economy, national security, our presence in the Asia Pacific, China’s increasing role in international affairs -- there’s probably no bilateral relationship that carries more significance and where there’s also the potential if that relationship breaks down or goes into a full-conflict mode, that everybody is worse off. So I think it’s fine for him to take a look at it. 考虑到美中关系的重要性，考虑到世界经济、国家安全、我们在亚太的存在、中国在国际事务中日益增强的作用——可能没有哪一对双边关系更重要，而且如果这种关系破裂或进入全面冲突模式，每个人都会变得更糟。所以我认为他审视一下是可以的。
What I’ve advised the President-elect is that across the board on foreign policy, you want to make sure that you’re doing it in a systematic, deliberate, intentional way. 我给候任总统的建议是，在外交政策的各个方面，你都要确保以系统、深思熟虑、有意的方式来做。
And since there’s only one President at a time, my advice to him has been that before he starts having a lot of interactions with foreign governments other than the usual courtesy calls, that he should want to have his full team in place, that he should want his team to be fully briefed on what’s gone on in the past and where the potential pitfalls may be, where the opportunities are, what we’ve learned from eight years of experience, so that as he’s then maybe taking foreign policy in a new direction, he’s got all the information to make good decisions and, by the way, 由于一次只有一位总统，我给他的建议是，在他开始与外国政府进行大量互动之前——除了通常的礼节性拜访之外——他应该让他的整个团队就位，他应该让他的团队充分了解过去发生了什么，潜在的陷阱可能在哪里，机会在哪里，我们从八年经验中学到了什么，这样当他也许要将外交政策引向新的方向时，他掌握了所有信息来做出好的决策，顺便说一句，
that all of government is moving at the same time and singing from the same hymnal. 整个政府都在同步行动，步调一致。
And with respect to China -- and let’s just take the example of Taiwan -- there has been a longstanding agreement, essentially, between China, the United States, and, to some degree, the Taiwanese, which is to not change the status quo. Taiwan operates differently than mainland China does. China views Taiwan as part of China, but recognizes that it has to approach Taiwan as an entity that has its own ways of doing things. The Taiwanese have agreed that as long as they’re able to continue to function with some degree of autonomy, that they won’t charge forward and declare independence. 关于中国——我们就拿台湾问题来说——长期以来，中国、美国以及在某种程度上台湾之间有一个共识，那就是不改变现状。台湾的运作方式与中国大陆不同。中国认为台湾是中国的一部分，但认识到必须把台湾作为一个有自己行事方式的实体来对待。台湾方面也同意，只要他们能够继续以某种程度的自治运作，他们就不会贸然宣布独立。
And that status quo, although not completely satisfactory to any of the parties involved, has kept the peace and allowed the Taiwanese to be a pretty successful economy and a people who have a high degree of self-determination. But understand, for China, the issue of Taiwan is as important as anything on their docket. The idea of one China is at the heart of their conception as a nation. 这种现状，尽管对所有相关方来说都不完全令人满意，却维持了和平，让台湾成为一个相当成功的经济体，其人民享有高度的自决权。但要明白，对中国来说，台湾问题和他们议程上的任何事情一样重要。一个中国的理念是他们国家观念的核心。
And so if you are going to upend this understanding, you have to have thought through what the consequences are, because the Chinese will not treat that the way they’ll treat some other issues. They won’t even treat it the way they treat issues around the South China Sea, where we’ve had a lot of tensions. This goes to the core of how they see themselves. And their reaction on this issue could end up being very significant. 所以，如果你要颠覆这一共识，你必须想清楚后果是什么，因为中国人对待这件事的方式不会像对待其他问题一样。他们甚至不会像对待南海问题那样对待它——我们在南海有很多紧张关系。这件事关系到他们如何看待自己的核心。他们在这个问题上的反应可能会非常重大。
That doesn’t mean that you have to adhere to everything that’s been done in the past. It does mean that you’ve got to think it through and have planned for potential reactions that they may engage in. 这并不意味着你必须坚持过去所做的一切。这确实意味着你必须想清楚，并对他们可能采取的潜在反应有所准备。
All right. Isaac Dovere of Politico. 好的。《政治》杂志的艾萨克·多弗。
Question: Thank you, Mr. President. Two questions on where this all leaves us. 问：谢谢您，总统先生。两个问题，关于这一切给我们留下了什么。
President Obama: What leaves us? Where my presidency leaves us? 奥巴马总统：什么留下了什么？我的总统任期留下了什么？
Question: The election -- 问：选举——
President Obama: It leaves us in a really good spot -- if we make some good decisions going forward. 奥巴马总统：选举让我们处于一个非常好的位置——如果我们未来做出一些好的决定的话。
Question: Well, what do you say to the electors who are going to meet on Monday and are thinking of changing their votes? Do you think that they should be given an intelligence briefing about the Russian activity? Or should they bear in mind everything you’ve said and is out already? Should they -- should votes be bound by the state votes as they’ve gone? And long term, do you think that there is a need for Electoral College reform that would tie it to the popular vote? 问：那么，您对周一就要开会、正在考虑改投选票的选举人有什么要说的？您认为他们应该听取关于俄罗斯活动的情报简报吗？还是说他们应该牢记您说过的和已经公开的一切？他们应该——选票应该按照各州的投票结果来绑定吗？从长远来看，您认为是否需要改革选举人团制度，使其与普选挂钩？
President Obama: It sounded like two, but that was all one. 奥巴马总统：听起来像两个问题，但其实是一个。
Question: It was all one. You know the way this goes around here. 问：就是一个。您知道这里的规矩。
President Obama: I love how these -- I got two questions, each one has four parts. 奥巴马总统：我喜欢这些——我有两个问题，每个问题有四个部分。
Question: On the Democratic Party, your Labor Secretary is running to be the Chair of the Democratic National Committee. Is the vision that you’ve seen him putting forward what you think the party needs to be focused on? And what do you say to some of the complaints that say the future of the Democratic Party shouldn’t be a continuation of some of your political approach? 问：关于民主党，您的劳工部长正在竞选民主党全国委员会主席。您认为他提出的愿景正是党需要关注的吗？对于一些抱怨，说民主党的未来不应该是您政治方法的延续，您有什么要说的？
Part of that is complaints that decisions that you’ve made as President, as the leader of the party, have structurally weakened the DNC and the Democratic Party, and they think that that has led to -- or has helped lead to some losses in elections around the country. Do you regret any of those decisions? 部分抱怨是，您作为总统、作为党的领袖所做的决定，在结构上削弱了民主党全国委员会和民主党，他们认为这导致了——或帮助导致了——全国各地选举中的一些失利。您后悔其中的任何决定吗？
President Obama: Okay. 奥巴马总统：好的。
Question: Those are my two. 问：这是我的两个问题。
President Obama: Good. I’ll take the second one first and say that Tom Perez has been, I believe, one of the best secretaries of labor in our history. He is tireless. He is wicked smart. He has been able to work across the spectrum of labor, business, activists. He’s produced. I mean, if you look at his body of work on behalf of working people, what he’s pushed for in terms of making sure that workers get a fair deal, decent wages, better benefits, that their safety is protected on the job -- he has been extraordinary. 奥巴马总统：好的。我先回答第二个问题，我要说，汤姆·佩雷斯是，我相信，我们历史上最好的劳工部长之一。他不知疲倦。他非常聪明。他能够在劳工界、企业界、活动人士之间开展合作。他做出了成绩。我的意思是，如果你看看他为劳动人民所做的工作，他为确保工人得到公平待遇、体面工资、更好福利、工作安全得到保护所推动的事情——他一直是非凡的。
Now, others who have declared are also my friends and are fine people, as well. And the great thing is, I don’t have a vote in this, so we’ll let the process unfold. I don’t think it’s going to happen anytime soon. I described to you earlier what I think needs to happen, which is that the Democratic Party, whether that’s entirely through the DNC or through a rebuilding of state parties or some other arrangement, has to work at the grassroots level, has to be present in all 50 states, has to have a presence in counties, has to think about message and how are we speaking directly to voters. 现在，其他已经宣布参选的人也都是我的朋友，也都是好人。而且棒的是，我在这件事上没有投票权，所以我们让这个过程自行展开吧。我认为这不会很快发生。我之前已经向你们描述了我认为需要做的事情，那就是民主党，无论是完全通过民主党全国委员会，还是通过重建各州政党，或通过其他安排，都必须在基层开展工作，必须在所有50个州都有存在感，必须在各县都有存在感，必须思考信息传递以及我们如何直接对选民说话。
I will say this -- and I’m not going to engage in too much punditry -- but that I could not be prouder of the coalition that I put together in each of my campaigns because it was inclusive, and it drew in people who normally weren’t interested in politics and didn’t participate. But I’d like to think -- I think I can show that in those elections, I always cast a broad net. I always said, first and foremost we’re Americans, that we have a common creed, that there’s more that we share than divides us, and I want to talk to everybody and get a chance to get everybody’s vote. 我要说的是——我不打算过多地发表评论——但我对我在每次竞选中组建的联盟感到无比自豪，因为它是包容性的，它吸引了那些通常对政治不感兴趣、不参与政治的人。但我想说——我想我可以证明，在那些选举中，我总是撒下一张大网。我总是说，我们首先是美国人，我们有共同的信念，我们的共同点比分歧更多，我想和每个人交谈，有机会赢得每个人的选票。
I still believe what I said in 2004, which is this red state/blue thing is a construct. Now, it is a construct that has gotten more and more powerful for a whole lot of reasons, from gerrymandering to big money, to the way that media has splintered. And so people are just watching what reinforces their existing biases as opposed to have to listen to different points of view. So there are all kinds of reasons for it. 我仍然相信我在2004年说过的话，那就是红州/蓝州的说法是一种建构。现在，由于很多原因，从选区划分到大额资金，再到媒体的分裂方式，这种建构变得越来越强大。人们只看那些强化他们现有偏见的东西，而不必倾听不同的观点。所以有各种各样的原因。
But outside of the realm of electoral politics, I still see people the way I saw them when I made that speech -- full of contradictions, and there are some regional differences, but basically folks care about their families, they care about having meaningful work, they care about making sure their kids have more opportunity than they did. They want to be safe, they want to feel like things are fair. And whoever leads the DNC and any candidate with the Democratic brand going forward, I want them to feel as if they can reach out and find that common ground -- speak to all of America. 但在选举政治领域之外，我仍然像我发表那次演讲时一样看待人们——充满矛盾，有一些地区差异，但基本上人们都关心他们的家庭，关心有意义的工作，关心确保他们的孩子比他们有更多机会。他们想要安全，想要感觉事情是公平的。无论谁领导民主党全国委员会，未来任何带有民主党标签的候选人，我都希望他们觉得自己可以伸出手去，找到共同点——对全美国说话。
And that requires some organization. 而这需要一些组织工作。
And you’re right that -- and I said this in my earlier remarks -- that what I was able to do during my campaigns, I wasn’t able to do during midterms. It’s not that we didn’t put in time and effort into it. I spent time and effort into it, but the coalition I put together didn’t always turn out to be transferable. 你说得对——我在之前的讲话中也说过——我在竞选期间能够做到的事情，在中期选举中没能做到。不是我们没有投入时间和精力。我投入了时间和精力，但我组建的联盟并不总是能够转移的。
And the challenge is that -- you know, some of that just has to do with the fact that when you’re in the party in power and people are going through hard times like they were in 2010, they’re going to punish, to some degree, the President’s party regardless of what organizational work is done. 挑战在于——你知道，部分原因是，当你是执政党，而人们正在经历困难时期，比如2010年，他们会在某种程度上惩罚总统的政党，无论做了多少组织工作。
Some of it has to do with just some deep-standing traditional challenges for Democrats, like during off-year election, the electorate is older and we do better with a younger electorate. But we know those things are true, and I didn’t crack the code on that. And if other people have ideas about how to do that even better, I’m all for it. 部分原因是民主党长期存在的一些传统挑战，比如在非大选年，选民年龄更大，而我们在年轻选民中表现更好。但我们知道这些都是事实，而我并没有找到破解之道。如果其他人有更好的想法，我完全赞成。
So with respect to the electors, I’m not going to wade into that issue because, again, it’s the American people’s job, and now the electors' job to decide my successor. It is not my job to decide my successor. And I have provided people with a lot of information about what happened during the course of the election. But more importantly, the candidates themselves, I think, talked about their beliefs and their vision for America. The President-elect, I think, has been very explicit about what he cares about and what he believes in. So it’s not in my hands now; it’s up to them. 关于选举人，我不打算介入这个问题，因为，这是美国人民的事，现在是选举人决定我的继任者的事。决定我的继任者不是我的工作。我已经向人们提供了大量关于选举期间发生的事情的信息。但更重要的是，候选人本身，我认为，都谈到了他们对美国的信念和愿景。候任总统，我认为，已经非常明确地表达了他关心什么、信仰什么。所以现在这不在我手中；这取决于他们。
Question: What about long-term about the Electoral College? 问：从长远来看，选举人团制度呢？
President Obama: Long-term with a respect to the Electoral College -- the Electoral College is a vestige, it’s a carryover from an earlier vision of how our federal government was going to work that put a lot of premium on states, and it used to be that the Senate was not elected directly, it was through state legislatures. And it’s the same type of thinking that gives Wyoming two senators with about half a million people, and California with 33 million get the same two. 奥巴马总统：关于选举人团的长远问题——选举人团制度是一种遗留物，是早期关于我们联邦政府如何运作的构想的延续，当时非常重视各州的权利，过去参议院不是直接选举的，而是通过州议会选举的。同样的思路让怀俄明州只有约50万人口却有两名参议员，而加利福尼亚州有3300万人口也只有两名。
So there are some structures in our political system, as envisioned by the Founders, that sometimes are going to disadvantage Democrats. But the truth of the matter is, is that, if we have a strong message, if we’re speaking to what the American people care about, typically the popular vote and the Electoral College vote will align. 所以我们政治制度中有一些结构，正如开国元勋们所设想的，有时会对民主党不利。但事实是，如果我们有强有力的信息，如果我们讲美国人民关心的事情，通常普选和选举人团的结果会是一致的。
And I guess part of my overall message here as I leave for the holidays is that if we look for one explanation or one silver bullet or one easy fix for our politics, then we’re probably going to be disappointed. There are just a lot of factors in what’s happened not just over the last few months, but over the last decade that has made both politics and governance more challenging. And I think everybody has raised legitimate questions and legitimate concerns. 我想我在假期离开前的整体信息是，如果我们寻找一个解释或一个灵丹妙药或一个简单的方法来解决我们的政治问题，那么我们可能会失望。不仅在过去几个月，而且在过去十年中发生的事情有很多因素，使得政治和治理都更具挑战性。我认为每个人都提出了合理的问题和合理的担忧。
I do hope that we all just take some time, take a breath -- this is certainly what I’m going to advise Democrats -- to just reflect a little bit more about how can we get to a place where people are focused on working together based on at least some common set of facts. How can we have a conversation about policy that doesn’t demonize each other. 我确实希望我们都能花点时间，喘口气——这当然是我要建议民主党人的——只是多反思一下，我们如何才能到达这样一个境地：人们专注于合作，至少基于一些共同的事实。我们如何才能进行一场不互相妖魔化的政策对话。
How can we channel what I think is the basic decency and goodness of the American people so it reflects itself in our politics, as opposed to it being so polarized and so nasty that, in some cases, you have voters and elected officials who have more confidence and faith in a foreign adversary than they have in their neighbors. 我们如何才能引导我所认为的美国人民的基本正派和善良，使其反映在我们的政治中，而不是让政治变得如此两极化和如此肮脏，以至于在某些情况下，选民和民选官员对外国对手的信心和信任超过了对邻居的信心和信任。
And those go to some bigger issues. How is it that we have some voters or some elected officials who think that Michelle Obama’s healthy eating initiative and school nutrition program is a great threat to democracy than our government going after the press if they’re issuing a story they don’t like? I mean, that’s an issue that I think we’ve got to wrestle with -- and we will. 这些涉及到一些更大的问题。怎么会有一些选民或民选官员认为，米歇尔·奥巴马的健康饮食倡议和学校营养计划对民主的威胁，比我们的政府因为媒体发表了他们不喜欢的报道而针对媒体更大？我的意思是，这是一个我认为我们必须努力解决的问题——我们会的。
People have asked me how do you feel after the election and so forth, and I say, well, look, this is a clarifying moment. It’s a useful reminder that voting counts, politics counts. What the President-elect is going to be doing is going to be very different than what I was doing, and I think people will be able to compare and contrast and make judgments about what worked for the American people. 人们问我选举后感觉如何，等等，我说，嗯，这是一个澄清时刻。这是一个有益的提醒：投票很重要，政治很重要。候任总统将要做的事情将与我所做的非常不同，我认为人们将能够比较和对比，并做出判断，看什么对美国人民有效。
And I hope that, building off the progress we’ve made, that what the President-elect is proposing works. What I can say with confidence is that what we’ve done works. That I can prove. I can show you where we were in 2008 and I can show you where we are now, and you can’t argue that we’re not better off. We are. And for that, I thank the American people and, more importantly, I thank -- well, not more importantly -- as importantly -- I was going to say Josh Earnest for doing such a great job. For that, I thank the American people. I thank the men and women in uniform who serve. 我希望，在我们取得的进展的基础上，候任总统提出的方案能够奏效。我可以有信心地说的是，我们所做的是有效的。这我可以证明。我可以告诉你们2008年我们的处境，我可以告诉你们我们现在的处境，你们不能说我们没有变得更好。我们确实变好了。为此，我感谢美国人民，更重要的是，我感谢——嗯，不是更重要——同等重要——我本来想说乔希·欧内斯特做得非常出色。为此，我感谢美国人民。我感谢服役的男女军人。
I haven’t gotten to the point yet where I’ve been overly sentimental. 我还没到过于伤感的地步。
I will tell you, when I was doing my last Christmas party photoline -- many of you have participated in these; they’re pretty long -- right at the end of the line, the President’s Marine Corps Band comes in, those who had been performing, and I take a picture when them, and it was the last time that I was going to take a picture with my Marine Corps Band after an event, and I got a little choked up. Now, I was in front of Marines, so I had to, like, tamp it down. 我可以告诉你们，当我在我的最后一个圣诞拍照招待会上——你们中很多人都参加过，这些队伍很长——就在队伍的最后，总统的海军陆战队乐队进来了，那些表演的成员，我和他们合影，这是我最后一次在活动后与我的海军陆战队乐队合影，我有点哽咽了。当时我在海军陆战队员面前，所以我必须，嗯，忍住。
But it was just one small example of all the people who have contributed to our success. I’m responsible for where we’ve screwed up. The successes are widely shared with all the amazing people who have been part of this Administration. 但这只是所有为我们的成功做出贡献的人们的一个小例子。我们搞砸了的地方是我的责任。成功则广泛地归功于所有参与本届政府的了不起的人们。
Thank you, everybody. 谢谢大家。
Mele Kalikimaka. 梅乐·卡利基马卡（夏威夷语：圣诞快乐）。