Senator McCarthy: Mr. Chairman, in view of that request by Mr. -- 麦卡锡参议员：主席先生，鉴于韦尔奇先生的要求——
Senator Mundt: Do you have a point of order? 蒙德参议员：你有程序问题要提出吗？
Senator McCarthy: Not exactly, Mr. Chairman. But in view of Mr. Welch's request that the information be given once we know of anyone who might be performing any work for the Communist Party, I think we should tell him that he has in his law firm a young man named Fisher whom he recommended, incidentally, to do the work on this committee. 麦卡锡参议员：不完全是，主席先生。但鉴于韦尔奇先生要求一旦我们知道任何人可能为共产党工作就提供信息，我认为我们应该告诉他，他的律所里有一位名叫费舍尔的年轻人，他推荐此人来委员会工作。
Senator McCarthy: This young man has been, for a number of years, a member of an organization which is named, oh, years and years ago, as the legal bulwark of the Communist Party, an organization which always springs to the defense of anyone who dares to expose Communists. I certainly assume that Mr. Welch did not know of this young man at the time he recommended as the assistant counsel for this committee. 麦卡锡参议员：这位年轻人多年来一直是某个组织的成员，该组织多年前就被称为共产党的法律堡垒，总是挺身而出为那些敢于揭露共产党人的人辩护。我当然假定韦尔奇先生在推荐他担任委员会助理律师时并不知道此事。
Senator McCarthy: But he has terror and such a great desire to know where anyone is located who may be serving the Communist cause, Mr. Welch. And I thought we should just call your attention to the fact that your Mr. Fisher, who is still in your law firm today, whom you asked to have down here looking over the secret and classified material, is a member of an organization, not named by me, but named by various committees, named by the Attorney General, as I recall. And he belonged to it long after it had been exposed as the legal arm of the Communist Party. 麦卡锡参议员：但韦尔奇先生，你如此迫切地想知道任何可能为共产党事业服务的人的下落。我想提醒你注意，你的费舍尔先生至今仍在你的律所工作，你请他来这里查阅机密和保密材料，他是某个组织的成员，这个组织不是我命名的，而是由各个委员会命名的，我记得总检察长也这样称呼过。而且他在该组织被曝光为共产党的法律臂膀很久之后仍然是其成员。
Senator McCarthy: Knowing that, Mr. Welch, I just felt that I had a duty to respond to your urgent request that "before sundown," when we know of anyone serving the Communist cause we let the agency know. Now, we're now letting you know that your man did belong to this organization for either three or four years, belonged to it long after he was out of law school. 麦卡锡参议员：韦尔奇先生，既然如此，我觉得有责任回应你"日落之前"的紧急要求——当我们知道任何为共产党事业服务的人时，我们要通知相关机构。现在，我们要告诉你，你的人确实属于这个组织三到四年，在他从法学院毕业后很久仍然是其成员。
Senator McCarthy: Now I have hesitated bringing that up, but I have been rather bored with your phony requests to Mr. Cohn here, that he, personally, get every Communist out of government before sundown; therefore we will give you the information about the young man in your own organization. 麦卡锡参议员：我一直犹豫是否要提起此事，但我对你向科恩先生提出的虚假要求感到相当厌烦——要求他本人在日落之前将所有共产党人赶出政府；因此我们将向你提供关于你自己组织中这位年轻人的信息。
Senator McCarthy: Now, I'm not asking you at this time to explain why you tried to foist him on this committee; that you did, the committee knows. Whether you knew that he was a member of that Communist organization or not, I don't know. I assume you did not, Mr. Welch, because I get the impression that while you are quite an actor, you play for a laugh. 麦卡锡参议员：现在，我并不要求你解释为什么你试图将他强加给这个委员会；你确实这样做了，委员会知道这一点。你是否知道他是那个共产党组织的成员，我不知道。我假定你不知道，韦尔奇先生，因为我的印象是，虽然你是个相当不错的演员，但你只是为了取乐。
Senator McCarthy: I don't think you have any conception of the danger of the Communist Party. I don't think you, yourself, would ever knowingly aid the Communist cause. I think you're unknowingly aiding it when you try to burlesque this hearing in which we're attempting to bring out the facts, however. 麦卡锡参议员：我不认为你对共产党的危险有任何概念。我不认为你本人会故意帮助共产党事业。然而，当你试图把我们试图揭示事实的听证会变成滑稽戏时，我认为你是在不知不觉地帮助它。
Mr. Welch: Mr. Chairman. 韦尔奇先生：主席先生。
Senator Mundt: The Chair should say that he has no recognition -- no -- no memory of Mr. Welch recommending either Mr. Fisher or anybody else as counsel for this committee. 蒙德参议员：主席应该说，他不记得——不——不记得韦尔奇先生曾推荐费舍尔先生或其他人担任委员会律师。
Mr. Welch: Mr. Chairman. 韦尔奇先生：主席先生。
Senator Mundt: Mr. Welch. 蒙德参议员：韦尔奇先生。
Senator McCarthy: I refer to the record, then, Mr. Chairman -- the 麦卡锡参议员：那么，主席先生，我引用记录——
Mr. Welch: Mr. Chairman. 韦尔奇先生：主席先生。
Senator McCarthy: -- the news story on that. 麦卡锡参议员：——相关的新闻报道。
Mr. Welch: Under these circumstances, I must myself have something approaching a personal privilege. 韦尔奇先生：在这种情况下，我本人必须享有某种近似个人特权的权利。
Senator Mundt: You may have it, sir. It will not be taken out of your time. 蒙德参议员：你可以享有，先生。这不会占用你的时间。
Mr. Welch: Senator McCarthy, I did not know, Senator -- Senator, sometimes you say, "May I have your attention?" 韦尔奇先生：麦卡锡参议员，我不知道，参议员——参议员，有时你会说："能请你注意一下吗？"
Senator McCarthy: I'm listening. I didn't know . . . 麦卡锡参议员：我在听。我不知道……
Mr. Welch: May I have your attention? 韦尔奇先生：能请你注意一下吗？
Senator McCarthy: I -- I can listen with one ear and talk with [him]. 麦卡锡参议员：我——我可以一只耳朵听，另一只耳朵和[他]说话。
Mr. Welch: Now, this time, sir -- 韦尔奇先生：现在，这一次，先生——
Senator McCarthy: Okay. 麦卡锡参议员：好的。
Mr. Welch: -- I want you to listen with both. 韦尔奇先生：——我希望你用两只耳朵听。
Senator McCarthy: All right, got it . . . 麦卡锡参议员：好吧，知道了……
Mr. Welch: Senator McCarthy, I think until this moment -- 韦尔奇先生：麦卡锡参议员，我认为直到这一刻——
Senator McCarthy: -- Good. Just -- just a minute. Let me ask -- Jim [Juliana], Jim, will you get the news story to the effect that this man belonged to the -- to this Communist front organization? Would you get the -- 麦卡锡参议员：——很好。等——等一下。让我问问——吉姆[朱莉安娜]，吉姆，你能找到新闻报道，说明这个人曾属于——属于这个共产党外围组织吗？你能找到——
Mr. Welch: I will tell you that he belonged to it. 韦尔奇先生：我会告诉你他确实属于这个组织。
Senator McCarthy: -- will -- will you get the -- the citations, order the citations showing that this was the legal arm of the Communist Party, and the length of time that he belonged, and the fact that he was recommended by Mr. Welch. I think that should be in the record for Mr. Welch. 麦卡锡参议员：——你——你能找到——那些引用，命令提供引用，证明这是共产党的法律臂膀，以及他所属的时间长度，还有他是由韦尔奇先生推荐的事实。我认为这应该记录在案供韦尔奇先生参考。
Mr. Welch: Senator -- 韦尔奇先生：参议员——
Senator Mundt: The Chair recognizes Mr. Welch. 蒙德参议员：主席认可韦尔奇先生发言。
Mr. Welch: You won't need anything in the record when I finish telling you this. Until this moment, Senator, I think I never really gauged your cruelty, or your recklessness. Fred Fisher is a young man who went to the Harvard Law School and came into my firm and is starting what looks to be a brilliant career with us. 韦尔奇先生：等我把这件事说完，你就不需要任何记录了。直到这一刻，参议员，我想我从未真正衡量过你的残忍，或者你的鲁莽。弗雷德·费舍尔是一位毕业于哈佛法学院的年轻人，他加入了我的律所，正开始他看起来会非常辉煌的职业生涯。
Mr. Welch: When I decided to work for this committee, I asked Jim St. Clair, who sits on my right, to be my first assistant. I said to Jim, "Pick somebody in the firm to work under you that you would like." He chose Fred Fisher, and they came down on an afternoon plane. 韦尔奇先生：当我决定为这个委员会工作时，我请坐在我右边的吉姆·圣克莱尔担任我的首席助理。我对吉姆说："从律所里挑一个你喜欢的人来协助你。"他选择了弗雷德·费舍尔，他们下午乘飞机来了。
Mr. Welch: That night, when we had taken a little stab at trying to see what the case is about, Fred Fisher and Jim St. Clair and I went to dinner together. I then said to these two young men, "Boys, I don't know anything about you except I've always liked you. But if there's anything funny in the life of either one of you that would hurt anybody in this case, you speak up quick." 韦尔奇先生：那天晚上，当我们稍微了解了一下案件情况后，弗雷德·费舍尔、吉姆·圣克莱尔和我一起去吃晚饭。我当时对这两位年轻人说："孩子们，除了我一直喜欢你们之外，我对你们一无所知。但如果你们任何人的生活中有任何可能伤害这个案件中任何人的事情，赶紧说出来。"
Mr. Welch: And Fred Fisher said, "Mr. Welch, when I was in the law school, and for a period of months after, I belonged to the Lawyers Guild," (as you have suggested, Senator). He went on to say, "I am Secretary of the Young Republicans League in Newton with the son of [the] Massachusetts governor, and I have the respect and admiration of my community, and I'm sure I have the respect and admiration of the twenty-five lawyers or so in Hale & Dorr." 韦尔奇先生：弗雷德·费舍尔说："韦尔奇先生，我在法学院期间以及之后的几个月里，曾是律师公会的成员，"（正如你所暗示的，参议员）。他接着说："我是牛顿市青年共和党联盟的秘书，与马萨诸塞州州长的儿子共事，我受到社区的尊敬和钦佩，我相信我也受到Hale & Dorr律所大约二十五名律师的尊敬和钦佩。"
Mr. Welch: And I said, "Fred, I just don't think I'm going to ask you to work on the case. If I do, one of these days that will come out, and go over national television, and it will just hurt like the dickens." And so, Senator, I asked him to go back to Boston. 韦尔奇先生：我说："弗雷德，我想我不会请你参与这个案件。如果我请你参与，总有一天这件事会曝光，在全国电视上播出，那将非常痛苦。"所以，参议员，我请他回到波士顿。
Mr. Welch: Little did I dream you could be so reckless and so cruel as to do an injury to that lad. It is true he is still with Hale & Dorr. It is true that he will continue to be with Hale & Dorr. It is, I regret to say, equally true that I fear he shall always bear a scar needlessly inflicted by you. 韦尔奇先生：我做梦也没想到你会如此鲁莽和残忍，以至于伤害那个年轻人。确实，他仍然在Hale & Dorr工作。确实，他将继续在那里工作。遗憾的是，同样真实的是，我担心他将永远背负你无端造成的伤疤。
Mr. Welch: If it were in my power to forgive you for your reckless cruelty, I would do so. I like to think I'm a gentle man, but your forgiveness will have to come from someone other than me. 韦尔奇先生：如果我有能力原谅你这种鲁莽的残忍，我会这样做的。我喜欢认为自己是一个温和的人，但你的原谅将不得不来自他人。
Senator McCarthy: Mr. Chairman? 麦卡锡参议员：主席先生？
Senator Mundt: [inaudible] 蒙德参议员：[听不清]
Senator McCarthy: May -- may I say that Mr. Welch talks about this being cruel and reckless. He was just baiting -- He has been baiting Mr. Cohn here for hours, requesting that Mr. Cohn, before sundown, get out of any department of the government anyone who is serving the Communist cause. 麦卡锡参议员：我——我可以说，韦尔奇先生说这是残忍和鲁莽的。他一直在引诱——他几个小时以来一直在引诱科恩先生，要求科恩先生在日落之前将政府任何部门中为共产党事业服务的人清除出去。
Senator McCarthy: Now, I just give [sic] this man's record and I want to say, Mr. Welch, that it has been labeled long before he became a member, as early as 1944 -- 麦卡锡参议员：现在，我只是陈述这个人的记录，我想说，韦尔奇先生，早在他成为成员之前，即1944年，这个组织就已经被贴上了标签——
Mr. Welch: Senator -- 韦尔奇先生：参议员——
Senator McCarthy: Let -- let me finish. 麦卡锡参议员：让——让我说完。
Mr. Welch: -- may we not drop this? 韦尔奇先生：——我们能不能不谈这个了？
Senator McCarthy: Let me finish. 麦卡锡参议员：让我说完。
Mr. Welch: We know he belonged to the Lawyers Guild. 韦尔奇先生：我们知道他曾是律师公会的成员。
Senator McCarthy: No, let me finish -- 麦卡锡参议员：不，让我说完——
Mr. Welch: And Mr. Cohn nods his head at me. I did you, I think, no personal injury, Mr. Cohn? 韦尔奇先生：科恩先生向我点头。我想我没有对你造成任何人身伤害，科恩先生？
Mr. Welch: I meant to do you no personal injury. 韦尔奇先生：我无意对你造成任何人身伤害。
Mr. Welch: And if I did -- 韦尔奇先生：如果我造成了——
Senator McCarthy: No -- 麦卡锡参议员：不——
Mr. Welch: -- I beg your pardon. Let us not assassinate this lad further, Senator. 韦尔奇先生：——我请求你的原谅。参议员，我们不要再进一步诋毁这个年轻人了。
Senator McCarthy: Let's, let's -- 麦卡锡参议员：我们，我们——
Mr. Welch: You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency? 韦尔奇先生：你已经做得够多了。你难道没有一点良知了吗，先生？你难道没有一点良知了吗？
Senator McCarthy: I know this hurts you, Mr. Welch. 麦卡锡参议员：我知道这伤害了你，韦尔奇先生。
Mr. Welch: I'll say it hurts! 韦尔奇先生：我要说这确实伤害了我！
Senator McCarthy: May I say, Mr. Chairman, as point of personal privilege, I'd like to finish this. 麦卡锡参议员：主席先生，作为个人特权，我想说我想把这件事说完。
Mr. Welch: Senator, I think it hurts you, too, sir. 韦尔奇先生：参议员，我认为这也伤害了你，先生。
Senator McCarthy: I'd -- I'd like to finish this. I know Mr. Cohn would rather not have me go into this. I intend to, however. And Mr. -- Mr. Welch talks about any "sense of decency." 麦卡锡参议员：我——我想把这件事说完。我知道科恩先生宁愿我不谈这件事。但我打算谈。韦尔奇先生谈论任何"良知"。
Senator McCarthy: It seems that Mr. Welch is pained so deeply, he thinks it's improper for me to give the record, the Communist front record, of the man whom he wanted to foist upon this committee. 麦卡锡参议员：似乎韦尔奇先生深受伤害，他认为我陈述他试图强加给这个委员会的人的共产党外围组织记录是不合适的。
Senator McCarthy: But it doesn't pain him at all -- there's no pain in his chest about the attempt to destroy the reputation and the -- take the jobs away from the young men who are working on my committee. 麦卡锡参议员：但他对此毫不痛苦——对于试图破坏在我的委员会工作的年轻人的声誉并——夺走他们工作的企图，他的胸口毫无痛苦。
Senator McCarthy: And Mr. Welch, if -- if I have said anything here which is untrue, then tell me. I have heard you and everyone else talk so much about laying the truth upon the table. 麦卡锡参议员：韦尔奇先生，如果——如果我在这里说的任何话是不真实的，那么请告诉我。我听到你和其他人都在谈论要把真相摆到桌面上。
Senator McCarthy: But when I heard the completely phony Mr. Welch -- I've been listening now for a long time -- he's saying, "Now, before sundown, you must get these people out of government." So that I just want you to have it very clear, very clear that you were not so serious about that when you tried to recommend this man for this committee. But the point is -- 麦卡锡参议员：但当我听到彻头彻尾虚假的韦尔奇先生——我已经听了很长时间——他说："现在，日落之前，你必须把这些人赶出政府。"所以我只想让你非常清楚，非常清楚，当你试图推荐这个人进入这个委员会时，你对这件事并不是那么认真。但关键是——
Senator Mundt: The Chair would like to say, again, that -- 蒙德参议员：主席想再次说——
Senator McCarthy: [inaudible crosstalk] 麦卡锡参议员：[听不清的交叉对话]
Senator Mundt: -- he doesn't believe that Mr. Welch recommended Mr. Fisher as counsel for this committee, because he has, through his office, all the recommendations which were made and does not recall any of them coming from Mr. Welch -- and that would include Mr. Fisher. 蒙德参议员：——他不相信韦尔奇先生曾推荐费舍尔先生担任委员会律师，因为他通过其办公室掌握了所有推荐材料，不记得有任何推荐来自韦尔奇先生——这当然包括费舍尔先生。
Senator McCarthy: Well, let me ask Mr. Welch. You -- you brought him down, did you not, to act as your assistant? 麦卡锡参议员：好吧，让我问问韦尔奇先生。你——你带他下来了，不是吗，让他担任你的助理？
Mr. Welch: Mr. McCarthy, I will not discuss this further with you. You have sat within six feet of me and could ask -- could have asked me about Fred Fisher. You have seen fit to bring it out, and if there is a God in heaven, it will do neither you nor your cause any good. 韦尔奇先生：麦卡锡先生，我不会再和你讨论这件事了。你坐在离我六英尺的地方，可以问——本来可以问我关于弗雷德·费舍尔的事。你选择把这件事公之于众，如果天堂里有上帝，这对你或你的事业都没有任何好处。
Mr. Welch: I will not discuss it further. I will not ask Mr. Cohn any more witnesses. You, Mr. Chairman, may, if you will, call the next witness. 韦尔奇先生：我不会再讨论这件事了。我不会再向科恩先生询问任何证人了。主席先生，如果你愿意，可以传唤下一位证人。