Good morning, everybody. I just met with Secretary Shinseki and Rob Nabors, who I’ve temporarily assigned to work with Secretary Shinseki and the VA. We focused on two issues: the allegations of misconduct at Veterans Affairs facilities, and our broader mission of caring for our veterans and their families. 大家早上好。我刚与辛塞基部长和罗布·内伯斯会面；我已临时指派内伯斯与辛塞基部长及退伍军人事务部一起工作。我们重点讨论了两件事：退伍军人事务部各机构涉嫌的不当行为，以及照顾退伍军人及其家属这一更广泛的使命。
As Commander-in-Chief, I have the honor of standing with our men and women in uniform at every step of their service: from the moment they take their oath, to when our troops prepare to deploy, to Afghanistan -- where they put their lives on the line for our security, to their bedside, as our wounded warriors fight to recover from terrible injuries. The most searing moments of my presidency have been going to Walter Reed, or Bethesda, or Bagram and meeting troops who have left a part of themselves on the battlefield. 作为三军统帅，我有幸在军人服役的每个阶段与他们并肩：从宣誓入伍，到部队准备部署，再到他们奔赴阿富汗、冒着生命危险捍卫我们的安全，以及受伤军人在病床上努力从重伤中康复。我担任总统期间最令人难忘、也最令人痛心的时刻，是前往沃尔特·里德、贝塞斯达或巴格拉姆，见到那些把自己身体的一部分留在战场上的军人。
And their spirit and their determination to recover and often to serve again is an inspiration. 他们的精神、他们努力康复并常常希望再次服役的决心，令人深受鼓舞。
So these men and women and their families are the best that our country has to offer. They’ve done their duty, and they ask nothing more than that this country does ours -- that we uphold our sacred trust to all who have served. 这些军人及其家属代表着我们国家最优秀的品质。他们履行了自己的职责，所求不过是国家也履行我们的职责：恪守对所有服役者的庄严承诺。
So when I hear allegations of misconduct -- any misconduct -- whether it’s allegations of VA staff covering up long wait times or cooking the books, I will not stand for it. Not as Commander-in-Chief, but also not as an American. None of us should. So if these allegations prove to be true, it is dishonorable, it is disgraceful, and I will not tolerate it -- period. 因此，当我听到任何不当行为的指控，无论是退伍军人事务部工作人员掩盖漫长等候时间，还是篡改记录，我都绝不能容忍。不仅作为三军统帅如此，作为美国人也是如此。我们谁都不应容忍。如果这些指控属实，那就是不光彩、可耻的行为，我绝不姑息，就这么简单。
Here’s what I discussed with Secretary Shinseki this morning. First, anybody found to have manipulated or falsified records at VA facilities has to be held accountable. The inspector general at the VA has launched investigations into the Phoenix VA and other facilities. And some individuals have already been put on administrative leave. I know that people are angry and want a swift reckoning. I sympathize with that. But we have to let the investigators do their job and get to the bottom of what happened. Our veterans deserve to know the facts. 下面说说今天早上我和辛塞基部长讨论的内容。第一，凡被查实在退伍军人事务部机构操纵或伪造记录的人，都必须承担责任。该部门的监察长已对凤凰城机构及其他机构展开调查，一些人员也已被行政停职。我知道人们感到愤怒，希望迅速追究责任。我理解这种心情。但我们必须让调查人员完成工作，查清到底发生了什么。我们的退伍军人有权知道事实。
Their families deserve to know the facts. And once we know the facts, I assure you -- if there is misconduct, it will be punished. 他们的家属也有权知道事实。一旦查清事实，我向你们保证：如果存在不当行为，必将受到惩处。
Second, I want to know the full scope of this problem. And that’s why I ordered Secretary Shinseki to investigate. Today, he updated me on his review, which is looking not just at the Phoenix facility, but also VA facilities across the nation. And I expect preliminary results from that review next week. 第二，我要弄清这一问题的全部范围。因此，我已责令辛塞基部长展开调查。今天，他向我介绍了调查进展；调查不仅涉及凤凰城机构，也涉及全国各地的退伍军人事务部机构。我预计下周会收到初步结果。
Third, I’ve directed Rob Nabors to conduct a broader review of the Veterans Health Administration -- the part of the VA that delivers health care to our veterans. And Rob is going to Phoenix today. Keep in mind, though, even if we had not heard reports out of this Phoenix facility or other facilities, we all know that it often takes too long for veterans to get the care that they need. That’s not a new development. It’s been a problem for decades and it’s been compounded by more than a decade of war. 第三，我已指示罗布·内伯斯对退伍军人医疗局进行更全面的审查。这个机构是退伍军人事务部中负责向退伍军人提供医疗服务的部门。罗布今天将前往凤凰城。但请记住，即使我们没有听到关于凤凰城或其他机构的报道，我们都知道退伍军人获得所需医疗服务往往要等得太久。这并非新近出现的问题；它已存在数十年，又因十多年的战争而加剧。
That’s why, when I came into office, I said we would systematically work to fix these problems, and we have been working really hard to address them. My attitude is, for folks who have been fighting on the battlefield, they should not have to fight a bureaucracy at home to get the care that they’ve earned. 正因如此，我上任时就说，我们将有计划地解决这些问题，也一直在为此努力。我的看法是：那些曾在战场上奋战的人，回国后不应为了获得应得的医疗照顾而再与官僚程序作战。
So the presumption has always been we’ve got to do better. And Rob’s review will be a comprehensive look at the Veterans Health Administration’s approach currently to access to care. I want to know what’s working. I want to know what is not working. And I want specific recommendations on how VA can up their game. And I expect that full report from Rob next month. 所以，我们始终认定必须做得更好。罗布的审查将全面考察退伍军人医疗局目前保障就医机会的做法。我想知道哪些方面有效，哪些方面无效；我还要得到关于退伍军人事务部如何改进工作的具体建议。我预计下个月会收到罗布的完整报告。
Number four -- I said that I expect everyone involved to work with Congress, which has an important oversight role to play. And I welcome Congress as a partner in our efforts not just to address the current controversies, but to make sure we’re doing right by our veterans across the board. I served on the Veterans Affairs Committee when I was in the Senate, and it was one of the proudest pieces of business that I did in the legislature. And I know the folks over there care deeply about our veterans. 第四，我要求所有相关人员与国会合作，国会在此有重要的监督职责。我欢迎国会与我们携手，不仅处理眼前的争议，也确保我们在各方面都善待退伍军人。我担任参议员时曾在退伍军人事务委员会任职，那是我在立法机构所做工作中最令我自豪的部分之一。我知道委员会的同事们都非常关心退伍军人。
It is important that our veterans don’t become another political football, especially when so many of them are receiving care right now. This is an area where Democrats and Republicans should always be working together. 重要的是，不要让我们的退伍军人成为又一个政治争斗的筹码，尤其是现在有那么多人正在接受照顾。在这个领域，民主党人和共和党人应当始终共同努力。
Which brings me to my final point. Even as we get to the bottom of what happened at Phoenix and other facilities, all of us, whether here in Washington or all across the country, have to stay focused on the larger mission, which is upholding our sacred trust to all of our veterans, bringing the VA system into the 21st century -- which is not an easy task. 这就引出了我的最后一点。即使我们正在查明凤凰城和其他机构究竟发生了什么，无论身在华盛顿还是全国各地，我们所有人都必须继续专注于更大的使命：恪守对所有退伍军人的庄严承诺，让退伍军人事务部的制度迈入21世纪。这并非易事。
We have made progress over the last five years. We’ve made historic investments in our veterans. We’ve boosted VA funding to record levels. And we created consistency through advanced appropriations so that veterans organizations knew their money would be there regardless of political wrangling in Washington. 过去五年，我们取得了进展。我们对退伍军人作出了历史性投入，把退伍军人事务部的经费提高到创纪录水平。我们还通过预先拨款保证资金稳定，使退伍军人组织知道，无论华盛顿发生怎样的政治争执，资金都能到位。
We made VA benefits available to more than 2 million veterans who did not have it before -- delivering disability pay to more Vietnam vets exposed to Agent Orange; making it easier for veterans with post-traumatic stress and mental health issues and traumatic brain injury to get treatment; and improving care for women veterans. 我们让此前无法享受相关待遇的两百多万退伍军人获得了退伍军人事务部的福利：向更多曾接触橙剂的越战退伍军人发放伤残补偿，使患有创伤后应激障碍、其他心理健康问题及创伤性脑损伤的退伍军人更容易获得治疗，并改善对女性退伍军人的照顾。
Because of these steps and the influx of new veterans requiring services added in many cases to wait times, we launched an all-out war on the disability claims backlog. And in just the past year alone, we’ve slashed that backlog by half. 这些措施，加上大量新退伍军人需要服务，在许多情况下拉长了等候时间。我们因此全面着手清理伤残福利申请积压。仅在过去一年，我们就把积压数量削减了一半。
Of course, we’re not going to let up, because it’s still too high. We’re going to keep at it until we eliminate the backlog once and for all. Meanwhile, we’re also reducing homelessness among our veterans. We’re helping veterans and their families -- more than a million so far -- pursue their education under the Post-9/11 GI Bill. We’re stepping up our efforts to help our newest veterans get the skills and training to find jobs when they come home. And along with Michelle and Jill Biden and Joining Forces, we’ve helped hundreds of thousands of veterans find a job. 当然，我们不会松懈，因为积压仍然太多。我们会持续努力，直到彻底清除积压。与此同时，我们也在减少退伍军人无家可归的现象。迄今已有一百多万退伍军人及其家属在《后九一一退伍军人教育援助法》的支持下接受教育。我们正加大力度，帮助最新一批退伍军人在返乡后获得找工作所需的技能和培训。米歇尔、吉尔·拜登与“携手同心”计划也和我们一起，帮助数十万退伍军人找到了工作。
More veterans are finding work and veterans unemployment, although still way too high, is coming down. 更多退伍军人正在就业，退伍军人失业率虽然仍然过高，但正在下降。
The point is, caring for our veterans is not an issue that popped up in recent weeks. Some of the problems with respect to how veterans are able to access the benefits that they’ve earned, that’s not a new issue. That’s an issue that I was working on when I was running for the United States Senate. Taking care of our veterans and their families has been one of the causes of my presidency, and it is something that all of us have to be involved with and have to be paying attention to. 我要说的是，照顾退伍军人并非最近几周才突然冒出来的议题。退伍军人在取得应得福利时遇到的某些困难，也不是新问题。我竞选美国参议员时就在处理这个问题。照顾退伍军人及其家属一直是我担任总统期间的重要事业，我们所有人都必须参与并持续关注。
We ended the war in Iraq. And as our war in Afghanistan ends, and as our newest veterans are coming home, the demands on the VA are going to grow. So we’re going to have to redouble our efforts to get it right as a nation. And we have to be honest that there are and will continue to be areas where we’ve got to do a lot better. 我们结束了伊拉克战争。随着阿富汗战争结束、最新一批退伍军人返乡，退伍军人事务部所面对的需求还会增加。因此，作为一个国家，我们必须加倍努力，把事情做好。我们也必须坦诚承认，在一些方面，我们现在和今后都还需要做得好得多。
So today, I want every veteran to know we are going to fix whatever is wrong. And so long as I have the privilege of serving as Commander-in-Chief, I’m going to keep on fighting to deliver the care and the benefits and the opportunities that your families deserve, now and for decades to come. That is a commitment to which I feel a sacred duty to maintain. 所以，今天我要让每一位退伍军人知道：无论哪里出了问题，我们都会把它解决。只要我还有幸担任三军统帅，就会继续为你们争取你们的家庭现在以及未来几十年应得的医疗照顾、福利和机会。这是我自觉肩负的神圣责任。
So with that, I’m going to take two questions. I’m going to take Jim Kuhnhenn at AP, first of all. 接下来我回答两个问题。先请美联社的吉姆·库恩亨提问。
Question: Thank you, Mr. President. As you said, this is a cause of your presidency. You ran on this issue -- you mentioned it. Why was it allowed to get to this stage where you actually had potentially 40 veterans who died while waiting for treatment? That’s an extreme circumstance. Why did it get to that? 提问：谢谢您，总统先生。正如您所说，这是您担任总统期间着力推动的事业。您竞选时就谈过这个问题，刚才也提到了。为什么事情会发展到如今这一步，以至于可能有40名退伍军人在等待治疗期间死亡？这是极端严重的情况。为什么会变成这样？
President Obama: Well, we have to find out, first of all, what exactly happened. And I don’t want to get ahead of the IG report or the other investigations that are being done. And I think it is important to recognize that the wait times generally -- what the IG indicated so far at least -- is the wait times were for folks who may have had chronic conditions, were seeking their next appointment but may have already received service. It was not necessarily a situation where they were calling for emergency services. 奥巴马总统：首先，我们必须查明究竟发生了什么。我不想在监察长报告或其他正在进行的调查之前抢下结论。我认为还必须认识到，至少根据监察长迄今的说法，这些等候时间通常涉及患有慢性病、寻求下一次预约的人；他们可能已经接受过服务。情况并不一定是他们打电话寻求急诊救治。
And the IG indicated that he did not see a link between the wait and them actually dying. 监察长还表示，他没有发现等候与这些人实际死亡之间存在关联。
That does not excuse the fact that the wait times in general are too long in some facilities. And so what we have to do is find out what exactly happened. We have to find out how can we realistically cut some of these wait times. There has been a large influx of new veterans coming in. We’ve got a population of veterans that is also aging as part of the baby boom population. And we’ve got to make sure that the scheduling system, the access to the system, that all those things are in sync. There are parts of the VA health care system that have performed well. 这并不能成为某些机构总体等候时间过长的借口。所以，我们必须查清究竟发生了什么，并弄明白如何切实缩短部分等候时间。新退伍军人大量涌入，同时，随着婴儿潮一代逐渐变老，退伍军人群体也在老龄化。我们必须确保预约制度、进入医疗体系的渠道等各方面都协调一致。退伍军人医疗体系中有些部分运转良好。
And what we’ve seen is, for example, satisfaction rates in many facilities with respect to many providers has been high. But what we’re seeing is that, in terms of how folks get scheduled, how they get in the system, there are still too many problems. I’m going to get a complete report from it. It is not, as a consequence, people not caring about the problem, but there are 85 million appointments scheduled among veterans during the course of a year. That’s a lot of appointments. 例如，我们看到，许多机构的许多服务提供者获得了很高的满意度评价。但在预约安排以及人们如何进入体系方面，问题仍然太多。我会收到一份完整报告。这并不是说大家不关心问题，而是说退伍军人一年要安排八千五百万次预约，这是非常庞大的数量。
And that means that we’ve got to have a system that is built in order to be able to take those folks in in a smooth fashion, that they know what to expect, that it’s reliable, and it means that the VA has got to set standards that it can meet. And if it can’t meet them right now, then it’s going to have to set realistic goals about how they improve the system overall. 这意味着，我们必须建立一套能够顺畅接纳这些人的制度，让他们知道会发生什么，让服务可靠；也意味着退伍军人事务部必须制定自己能够达到的标准。如果眼下达不到，就必须为整个体系的改进设定切合实际的目标。
Question: Does the responsibility ultimately rest with General Shinseki? 提问：最终责任是否在辛塞基将军身上？
President Obama: You know, the responsibility for things always rests ultimately with me, as the President and Commander-in-Chief. Ric Shinseki has been a great soldier. He himself is a disabled veteran. And nobody cares more about our veterans than Ric Shinseki. So if you ask me how do I think Ric Shinseki has performed overall, I would say that on homelessness, on the 9/11 GI Bill, on working with us to reduce the backlog, across the board he has put his heart and soul into this thing and he has taken it very seriously. 奥巴马总统：作为总统和三军统帅，所有事情的责任最终总是在我身上。里克·辛塞基是一位杰出的军人，他本人也是残疾退伍军人。没有人比里克·辛塞基更关心我们的退伍军人。所以，如果你问我他总体表现如何，我会说，在解决无家可归问题、落实《后九一一退伍军人教育援助法》以及与我们一道减少申请积压等各方面，他都倾注了全部心力，非常认真地对待这项工作。
But I have said to Ric -- and I said it to him today -- I want to see what the results of these reports are and there is going to be accountability. And I’m going to expect even before the reports are done that we are seeing significant improvement in terms of how the admissions process takes place in all of our VA health care facilities. So I know he cares about it deeply and he has been a great public servant and a great warrior on behalf of the United States of America. 但我已经告诉里克，今天也再次对他说，我要看到这些报告的结果，而且一定会追究责任。即使报告尚未完成，我也期待看到我们所有退伍军人医疗机构在接诊流程上出现显著改善。我知道他对此非常在意；他一直是一位出色的公仆，也是为美国奋战的杰出军人。
We’re going to work with him to solve the problem, but I am going to make sure that there is accountability throughout the system after I get the full report. 我们会同他一起解决问题，但在拿到完整报告后，我会确保整个体系都有人承担应负的责任。
Steve Holland from Reuters. 下面请路透社的史蒂夫·霍兰德。
Question: Thank you, sir. Has Secretary Shinseki offered to resign? And if he’s not to blame, then who is? And were you caught by surprise by these allegations? 提问：谢谢您，先生。辛塞基部长是否提出辞职？如果责任不在他，又在谁身上？这些指控是否让您感到意外？
President Obama: Ric Shinseki I think serves this country because he cares deeply about veterans and he cares deeply about the mission. And I know that Ric’s attitude is if he does not think he can do a good job on this and if he thinks he has let our veterans down, then I’m sure that he is not going to be interested in continuing to serve. At this stage, Ric is committed to solving the problem and working with us to do it. And I am going to do everything in my power, using the resources of the White House, to help that process of getting to the bottom of what happened and fixing it. 奥巴马总统：我认为，里克·辛塞基之所以为国家服务，是因为他深切关心退伍军人，也深切关心这项使命。我知道里克的态度是：如果他认为自己无法把这项工作做好，认为自己辜负了我们的退伍军人，那么我相信他不会有兴趣继续留任。现阶段，里克致力于解决问题，并与我们共同努力。我也会动用白宫资源，竭尽所能协助查明究竟发生了什么，并把问题解决。
But I’m also going to be waiting to see what the results of all this review process yields. I don’t yet know how systemic this is. I don’t yet know are there a lot of other facilities that have been cooking the books, or is this just an episodic problem. We know that, essentially, the wait times have been a problem for decades in all kinds of circumstances with respect to the VA -- getting benefits, getting health care, et cetera. Some facilities do better than others. A couple of years ago, the Veterans Affairs set a goal of 14 days for wait times. 但我也要等整个审查过程拿出结果。我还不知道问题有多大程度属于系统性问题；也不知道是否有许多其他机构篡改账目，还是只有个别地方出了问题。我们知道，退伍军人事务部在各种情况下的等候时间，包括领取福利、获得医疗服务等方面，几十年来一直是问题。有些机构做得比其他机构好。几年前，退伍军人事务部把等候时间目标定为14天。
What’s not yet clear to me is whether enough tools were given to make sure that those goals were actually met. 目前我还不清楚，相关机构是否获得了足够的工具，来确保真正达到这个目标。
And I won’t know until the full report is put forward as to whether there was enough management follow-up to ensure that those folks on the front lines who were doing scheduling had the capacity to meet those goals; if they were being evaluated for meeting goals that were unrealistic and they couldn’t meet, because either there weren’t enough doctors or the systems weren’t in place or what have you. We need to find out who was responsible for setting up those guidelines. So there are going to be a lot of questions that we have to answer. 只有完整报告出台，我才能知道管理层是否进行了充分跟进，确保一线安排预约的员工有能力达到目标；也要知道，他们是否因未能达到不切实际的目标而受到考核，而问题其实是医生不足、系统不到位或其他原因。我们需要查明是谁负责制定这些准则。因此，我们还有许多问题必须回答。
In the meantime, what I said to Ric today is let’s not wait for the report retrospectively to reach out immediately to veterans who are currently waiting for appointments, to make sure that they are getting better service. That’s something that we can initiate right now. We don’t have to wait to find out if there was misconduct to dig in and make sure that we’re upping our game in all of our various facilities. 与此同时，我今天对里克说，不要等报告出来后才回头检视。我们现在就要联系正在等待预约的退伍军人，确保他们得到更好的服务。这件事可以立即着手。我们不必等到查明是否存在不当行为，才深入各个机构改进工作。
I do think it is important not just with respect to Ric Shinseki, but with respect to the VA generally, to say that every single day there are people working in the VA who do outstanding work and put everything they’ve got into making sure that our veterans get the care, benefits and services that they need. And so I do want to close by sending a message out there that there are millions of veterans who are getting really good service from the VA, who are getting really good treatment from the VA. 我认为，不仅在谈到里克·辛塞基时，而且在谈到整个退伍军人事务部时，都必须指出：每天都有工作人员在那里出色地履职，竭尽所能确保退伍军人获得所需的医疗照顾、福利和服务。所以，在结束前我也想传达一个信息：有数百万退伍军人正从退伍军人事务部获得非常好的服务和治疗。
I know because I get letters from veterans sometimes asking me to write letters of commendation or praise to a doctor or a nurse or a facility that couldn’t have given them better treatment. 我知道这一点，因为我有时会收到退伍军人的来信，请我为某位医生、护士或某家机构写表扬信；他们觉得自己受到的照顾已经好得不能再好了。
And so this is a big system with a lot of really good people in it who care about our veterans deeply. We have seen the improvements on a whole range of issues like homelessness, like starting to clear the backlog up, like making sure that folks who previously weren’t even eligible for disability because it was a mental health issue or because it was an Agent Orange issue are finally able to get those services. I don’t want us to lose sight of the fact that there are a lot of folks in the VA who are doing a really good job and working really hard at it. 因此，这是一个庞大的体系，里面有很多优秀的人，真心关爱我们的退伍军人。在解决无家可归问题、开始清理积压，以及让过去因心理健康问题或接触橙剂而连伤残福利资格都没有的人终于获得相关服务等一系列方面，我们都看到了进步。我不希望大家忽略退伍军人事务部里许多人正在勤勤恳恳地做好工作这一事实。
That does not, on the other hand, excuse the possibility that, number one, we weren’t just -- we were not doing a good enough job in terms of providing access to folks who need an appointment for chronic conditions. Number two, it never excuses the possibility that somebody was trying to manipulate the data in order to look better or make their facility look better. 不过，这并不能为另外两种可能开脱。第一，我们在为需要预约治疗慢性病的人提供就医渠道方面，可能做得不够好。第二，更不能为有人企图操纵数据、让自己或所在机构显得业绩更好的可能性开脱。
It is critical to make sure that we have good information in order to make good decisions. I want people on the front lines, if there’s a problem, to tell me or tell Ric Shinseki, or tell whoever is their superior, that this is a problem. Don’t cover up a problem. Do not pretend the problem doesn’t exist. If you can’t get wait times down to 14 days right now, I want you to let folks up the chain know so that we can solve the problem. Do we need more doctors? Do we need a new system in order to make sure that the scheduling and coordination is more effective and more smooth? 为了作出正确决定，我们必须掌握可靠信息。如果一线人员发现问题，我希望他们告诉我、告诉里克·辛塞基，或告诉他们的任何上级：这里出了问题。不要掩盖问题，也不要假装问题不存在。如果眼下无法把等候时间缩短到14天，就向上级说明，让我们一起解决。我们是否需要更多医生？是否需要一套新制度，让预约安排和协调工作更有效、更顺畅？
Is there more follow-up? 是否需要更多后续跟进？
And that’s the thing that right now most disturbs me about the report -- the possibility that folks intentionally withheld information that would have helped us fix a problem, because there’s not a problem out there that’s not fixable. It can’t always be fixed as quickly as everybody would like, but typically we can chip away at these problems. We’ve seen this with the backlog. We’ve seen it with veterans homelessness. We’ve seen it with the Post-9/11 GI Bill. Initially, there were problems with it. They got fixed and now it’s operating fairly smoothly. 这也是眼下有关报道中最令我不安的地方：有人可能故意隐瞒本可以帮助我们解决问题的信息。因为没有什么问题是无法解决的。它们未必都能像大家希望的那样迅速解决，但通常我们可以一点点推进。我们在清理申请积压和减少退伍军人无家可归方面已经看到这一点，《后九一一退伍军人教育援助法》也是如此。最初实施时出现过问题，后来问题得到解决，现在运作得相当顺畅。
So problems can be fixed, but folks have to let the people that they’re reporting to know that there is a problem in order for us to fix it. 所以，问题是可以解决的，但工作人员必须让自己的上级知道问题存在，我们才能着手解决。
Question: What about bonuses for those implicated in mismanagement, Mr. President? 提问：总统先生，那些涉嫌管理不善的人领取奖金一事，您怎么看？
President Obama: We’re going to find out. My attitude is -- 奥巴马总统：我们会查清楚。我的态度是——
Question: Does that upset you? 提问：这会让您生气吗？
President Obama: Listen, if somebody has mismanaged or engaged in misconduct, not only do I not want them getting bonuses, I want them punished. So that’s what we’re going to hopefully find out from the IG report, as well as the audits that are taking place. 奥巴马总统：听着，如果有人管理不善或行为不当，我不仅不希望他们拿奖金，还希望他们受到惩处。这正是我们希望从监察长报告和正在进行的审计中查明的事。