Hello, everybody. Hello, hello. 大家好。你们好，你们好。
Hello, everybody. In a couple hours, I'll be departing on my final foreign trip as President. And while we're abroad, I'll have a chance to take a few of your questions, but I figured why wait? I know that there's a lot of domestic issues that people are thinking about, so I wanted to see if I could clear out some of the underbrush so that when we're overseas, and people are asking about foreign policy questions, people don't feel obliged to tack on three other questions to them. 大家好。再过几个小时，我将启程开始我作为总统的最后一次外访。在我们出访期间，我会有机会回答你们的一些问题，但我想何必等呢？我知道有很多国内问题是人们在思考的，所以我想看看能不能先清理一些头绪，这样当我们在海外、人们询问外交政策问题时，大家就不会觉得非要再附加三个其他问题了。
Let me -- I know you still will. That I'm aware, but I'm trying something out here. First of all, let me mention three brief topics. 让我——我知道你们还是会的。这我清楚，但我在这里想尝试一下。首先，让我简要谈三个话题。
First of all, as I discussed with the President-elect on Thursday, my team stands ready to accelerate in the next steps that are required to ensure a smooth transition. And we are going to be staying in touch as we travel. I remember what it was like when I came in eight years ago. It is a big challenge. This office is bigger than any one person. And that's why ensuring a smooth transition is so important. 首先，正如我周四与当选总统讨论的那样，我的团队随时准备加快推进确保平稳过渡所需的后续步骤。我们在出访期间也会保持联系。我还记得八年前我上任时的情形。这是一项巨大的挑战。这个职位比任何一个人都更重要。这就是为什么确保平稳过渡如此重要。
It's not something that the Constitution explicitly requires, but it is one of those norms that are vital to a functioning democracy -- similar to norms of civility and tolerance, and a commitment to reason and to facts and analysis. It's part of what makes this country work. And as long as I'm President, we are going to uphold those norms and cherish and uphold those ideals. 这不是宪法明确要求的事情，但它是对正常运作的民主至关重要的那些规范之一——类似于文明和宽容的规范，以及对理性、事实和分析的承诺。这是让这个国家运转的一部分。只要我还是总统，我们就会维护这些规范，珍惜并坚持这些理念。
As I've told my staff, we should be very proud that their work has already ensured that when we turn over the keys the car is in pretty good shape. We are indisputably in a stronger position today than we were when I came in eight years ago. Jobs have been growing for 73 straight months. Incomes are rising. Poverty is falling. The uninsured rate is at the lowest level on record. Carbon emissions have come down without impinging on our growth. 正如我告诉我的工作人员的那样，我们应该感到非常自豪，他们的工作已经确保了当我们交出钥匙时，这辆车的状态相当不错。无可争辩的是，我们今天的处境比八年前我上任时更加强劲。就业已连续73个月增长。收入在上升。贫困率在下降。参保率处于有记录以来的最低水平。碳排放已经下降，且没有影响我们的经济增长。
And so my instructions to my team are that we run through the tape. We make sure that we finish what we started, that we don't let up in these last couple of months, because my goal is, on January 21st, America is in the strongest position possible and hopefully there's an opportunity for the next President to build on that. 因此，我对我的团队的指示是，我们要冲过终点线。我们要确保完成我们开创的事业，在这最后几个月里不松懈，因为我的目标是，在1月21日，美国处于尽可能最强有力的位置，并希望下一任总统有机会在此基础上继续建设。
Number two, our work has also helped to stabilize the global economy. And because there is one President at a time, I'll spend this week reinforcing America's support for the approaches that we've taken to promote economic growth and global security on a range of issues. 第二，我们的工作也有助于稳定全球经济。因为一次只有一位总统，本周我将重申美国对我们为促进经济增长和全球安全在一系列问题上所采取方针的支持。
I look forward to my first visit in Greece. And then, in Germany, I'll visit with Chancellor Merkel, who's probably been my closest international partner these past eight years. I'll also signal our solidarity with our closest allies, and express our support for a strong, integrated, and united Europe. It's essential to our national security and it's essential to global stability. And that's why the Transatlantic Alliance and the NATO Alliance have endured for decades under Democratic and Republican Administrations. 我期待着我对希腊的首次访问。然后在德国，我将与默克尔总理会面，她可能是我这八年来最亲密的国际伙伴。我还将表明我们与最亲密盟友的团结，并表达我们对一个强大、一体化、统一的欧洲的支持。这对我们的国家安全至关重要，对全球稳定也至关重要。这就是为什么跨大西洋联盟和北约联盟数十年来在民主党和共和党政府下都得以延续。
Finally, in Peru, I'll meet with the leaders of countries that have been the focus of our foreign policy through our rebalance in the Asia Pacific. This is a time of great change in the world. But America has always been a pillar of strength and a beacon of hope to peoples around the globe. And that's what it must continue to be. 最后，在秘鲁，我将与那些通过我们的亚太再平衡战略成为我们外交政策重点的国家的领导人会面。这是一个世界发生巨大变化的时代。但美国一直是力量的支柱，是全球各国人民希望的灯塔。而且它必须继续如此。
Finally, on a personal note, Michelle and I want to offer our deepest condolences to Gwen Ifill's family and to all of you, her colleagues, on her passing. Gwen was a friend of ours. She was an extraordinary journalist. She always kept faith with the fundamental responsibilities of her profession -- asking tough questions, holding people in power accountable, and defending a strong and free press that makes our democracy work. 最后，就个人而言，我和米歇尔想向格温·艾菲尔的家人以及你们所有人——她的同事们——致以最深切的哀悼，悼念她的离世。格温是我们的朋友。她是一位杰出的记者。她始终忠于她职业的基本职责——提出尖锐的问题，追究掌权者的责任，捍卫使我们的民主运转的强大而自由的新闻界。
I always appreciated Gwen's reporting, even when I was at the receiving end of one of her tough and thorough interviews. Whether she reported from a convention floor or from the field, whether she sat at the debate moderator's table or at the anchor desk, she not only informed today's citizens, but she also inspired tomorrow's journalists. She was an especially powerful role model for young women and girls who admired her integrity, her tenacity, and her intellect -- and for whom she blazed a trail as one-half of the first all-female anchor team on network news. 我一直欣赏格温的报道，即使当我成为她那些尖锐而彻底的采访的对象时也是如此。无论是在党代会会场还是在现场报道，无论是坐在辩论主持人桌前还是在主播台，她不仅为当今的公民提供信息，还激励了明天的记者。对于钦佩她的正直、坚韧和才智的年轻女性和女孩来说，她是一个尤其强大的榜样——作为网络新闻界第一个全女性主播团队的一半，她为她们开辟了道路。
So Gwen did her country a great service. Michelle and I join her family and her colleagues, and everybody else who loved her in remembering her fondly today. 所以格温为她的国家做出了巨大贡献。我和米歇尔与她的家人、同事以及所有爱戴她的人一起，今天深情地缅怀她。
So, with that, I'm going to take some questions. And because Josh Earnest has some pull around here, he just happened to put at the top of the list Colleen Nelson of the Wall Street Journal. 好，那我开始回答问题。因为乔希·欧内斯特在这里有些影响力，他刚好把《华尔街日报》的科琳·纳尔逊排在了名单首位。
My understanding is, Colleen, that this is wrapping up your stint here and you're going to Kansas City. 科琳，我的理解是，你在这里的任期就要结束了，你要去堪萨斯城了。
Question: Correct. 问：没错。
President Obama: Josh just happens to be from Kansas City. So I didn't know if there was any coincidence there. But we wish you the very best of luck in your new endeavors. 奥巴马总统：乔希刚好来自堪萨斯城。所以我不知道这是不是巧合。但我们祝你在新的工作中一切顺利。
Question: As it turns out, there's no place like Kansas City. 问：事实证明，堪萨斯城是无可替代的。
President Obama: There you go. 奥巴马总统：说得好。
Question: You're about to embark on your final foreign trip. What will you say to other world leaders about your successor? They've expressed many of the same misgivings that you have about Donald Trump. Should they be worried about the future of U.S. foreign policy? And secondly, as Democrats scramble to regroup after a pretty shocking upset, what is your advice about where the party goes now? And who should lead your party? 问：你即将开始最后一次外访。你会对其他世界领导人说些什么关于你的继任者的话？他们表达了许多和你一样对唐纳德·特朗普的疑虑。他们应该为美国外交政策的未来担忧吗？其次，在民主党人在一场令人震惊的失利后争相重整旗鼓之际，你对该党今后的走向有何建议？谁应该领导你们的党？
President Obama: One of the great things about the United States is that when it comes to world affairs, the President obviously is the leader of the executive branch, the Commander-in-Chief, the spokesperson for the nation, but the influence and the work that we have is the result not just of the President, it is the result of countless interactions and arrangements and relationships between our military and other militaries, and our diplomats and other diplomats, and intelligence officers and development workers. 奥巴马总统：美国最伟大的一点之一是，在世界事务中，总统显然是行政部门的领导人、总司令、国家的代言人，但我们的影响力和工作不仅仅是总统的成果，更是我们军方与其他国家军方之间、我们的外交官与其他国家外交官之间、情报官员与发展工作者之间无数互动、安排和关系的结果。
And there's enormous continuity beneath the day-to-day news that makes us that indispensable nation when it comes to maintaining order and promoting prosperity around the world. That will continue. 在日常新闻之下，存在着巨大的延续性，使我们成为在维护世界秩序和促进全球繁荣方面不可或缺的国家。这一点将继续下去。
In my conversation with the President-elect, he expressed a great interest in maintaining our core strategic relationships. And so one of the messages I will be able to deliver is his commitment to NATO and the Transatlantic Alliance. 在我与当选总统的交谈中，他表示有极大兴趣维持我们的核心战略关系。因此，我能够传达的信息之一就是他对北约和跨大西洋联盟的承诺。
I think that's one of the most important functions I can serve at this stage, during this trip, is to let them know that there is no weakening of resolve when it comes to America's commitment to maintaining a strong and robust NATO relationship, and a recognition that those alliances aren't just good for Europe, they're good for the United States, and they're vital for the world. 我认为，在这个阶段、这次出访中，我能发挥的最重要作用之一，就是让他们知道，在美国承诺维持强大而稳固的北约关系方面，决心没有丝毫减弱，并且认识到这些联盟不仅对欧洲有利，对美国也有利，对世界也至关重要。
With respect to the Democratic Party, look, as I said in the Rose Garden right after the election, when your team loses, everybody gets deflated and it's hard and it's challenging. And so I think it's a healthy thing for the Democratic Party to go through some reflection. I think it's important for me not to be big-footing that conversation. I think we want to see new voices and new ideas emerge. That's part of the reason why I think term limits are a really useful thing. 关于民主党，听着，正如我选举后刚在玫瑰园说过的，当你的团队输了，每个人都会气馁，这很艰难，也很有挑战性。所以我认为民主党进行一些反思是健康的。我认为我不应该插手那场对话。我认为我们希望看到新的声音和新的想法涌现。这也是我认为任期限制非常有用的部分原因。
The Democrats should not waver on our core beliefs and principles; The belief that we should an economy that works for everybody, not just a few. The belief that America, at its best, is inclusive and not exclusive. That we insist on the dignity and God-given potential and worth of every child, regardless of race, or gender, or sexual orientation, or what zip code they were born in. 民主党人不应在我们的核心信念和原则上动摇；相信我们应该建立一个对所有人而非少数人有效的经济。相信美国在最好的状态下是包容的而非排他的。相信我们坚持每个孩子的尊严、天赋潜力和价值，无论种族、性别、性取向，或他们出生在哪个地区。
That we are committed to a world in which we keep America safe, but we recognize that our power doesn't just flow from our extraordinary military, it also flows from the strength of our ideals and our principles and our values. 相信我们致力于一个保障美国安全的世界，但我们也认识到，我们的力量不仅来自我们非凡的军事力量，也来自我们理想、原则和价值观的力量。
So there are going to be a core set of values that shouldn't be up for debate, should be our North Star. But how we organize politically I think is something that we should spend some time thinking about. I believe that we have better ideas. But I also believe that good ideas don't matter if people don't hear them. And one of the issues that Democrats have to be clear on is that, given population distribution across the country, we have to compete everywhere. We have to show up everywhere. We have to work at a grassroots level -- something that's been a running thread in my career. 因此，将有一套核心价值观不应成为辩论的议题，它们应该是我们的北极星。但我们如何在政治上组织起来，我认为是我们应该花些时间思考的问题。我相信我们有更好的想法。但我也相信，如果人们听不到，好的想法就没有意义。民主党人必须明确的一点是，考虑到全国的人口分布，我们必须在各地竞争。我们必须出现在各地。我们必须在基层层面努力——这是我职业生涯中贯穿始终的主线之一。
I won Iowa not because the demographics dictated that I would win Iowa, it was because I spent 87 days going to every small town and fair and fish fry and VFW hall. And there were some counties where I might have lost, but maybe I lost by 20 points instead of 50 points. There are some counties maybe I won that people didn't expect because people had a chance to see you and listen to you and get a sense of who you stood for and who you were fighting for. 我赢得爱荷华州不是因为人口结构决定了我会赢，而是因为我花了87天时间走遍每个小镇、集市、炸鱼宴和退伍军人协会礼堂。有些县我可能输了，但也许我只输了20个百分点而不是50个百分点。有些县也许我赢了，出乎人们的意料，因为人们有机会见到你、倾听你，并了解你代表什么、你为谁而战。
And the challenge for a national party is how do you dig in there and create those kinds of structures so that people have a sense of what it is that you stand for. And that increasingly is difficult to do just through a national press story. It's increasingly difficult to do because of the splintering of the press. 一个全国性政党面临的挑战是，你如何深入那里并建立那种结构，让人们感受到你代表什么。而仅仅通过全国性的新闻报道来做到这一点，正变得越来越困难。由于媒体的碎片化，做到这一点越来越难。
And so I think the discussions that have been taking place about how do you build more grassroots organizing, how do you build up state parties and local parties and schoolboard elections you're paying attention to, and state rep races and city council races -- that all I think will contribute to stronger outcomes in the future. 因此，我认为，关于如何建立更多基层组织、如何加强州政党和地方政党、关注学区董事会选举、州众议员选举和市议会选举——所有这些我认为都将有助于未来取得更好的成果。
And I'm optimistic that will happen. For Democrats who are feeling completely discouraged, I've been trying to remind them everybody remembers my Boston speech in 2004; they may not remember me showing up here in 2005 when John Kerry had lost a close election, Tom Daschle, the leader of the Senate, had been beaten in an upset. Ken Salazar and I were the only two Democrats that won nationally. Republicans controlled the Senate and the House. And two years later, Democrats were winning back Congress, and four years later, I was President of the United States. 而且我乐观地认为这会实现。对于感到完全沮丧的民主党人，我一直试图提醒他们，每个人都记得我2004年在波士顿的演讲；他们可能不记得2005年我出现在这里时，约翰·克里在一场势均力敌的选举中失利，参议院领袖汤姆·达施勒在一场意外中落败。我和肯·萨拉查是仅有的两位在全国获胜的民主党人。共和党人控制了参众两院。两年后，民主党人赢回了国会，四年后，我成了美国总统。
Things change pretty rapidly. But they don't change inevitably. They change because you work for it. Nobody said democracy was supposed to be easy. This is hard. And in a big country like this, it probably should be hard. 世事变化相当快。但变化不是必然发生的。变化是因为你为之努力。没有人说过民主是容易的。这很难。在我们这样一个大国里，也许本就该如此。
Mark Knoller. 马克·诺勒。
Question: Thank you, sir. 问：谢谢你，总统先生。
President Obama: Good to see you. 奥巴马总统：见到你很高兴。
Question: Thank you. Good to see you. Mr. President, what can you tell us about the learning curve on becoming President? Can you tell us how long it took you before you were fully at ease in the job, if that ever happens? And did you discuss this matter with President-elect Trump? 问：谢谢。见到你很高兴。总统先生，关于成为总统的学习曲线，你能告诉我们什么？你能告诉我们你花了多长时间才完全胜任这份工作吗，如果真有那么一天的话？你和当选总统特朗普讨论过这个问题吗？
President Obama: About a week ago I started feeling pretty good. No, look, I think the learning curve always continues. This is a remarkable job. It is like no other job on Earth. And it is a constant flow of information and challenges and issues. That is truer now than it has ever been, partly because of the nature of information and the interconnection between regions of the world. 奥巴马总统：大约一周前我开始感觉不错了。不，听着，我认为学习曲线一直在延续。这是一份非凡的工作。它不同于地球上任何其他工作。信息、挑战和问题源源不断。现在比以往任何时候都更是如此，部分原因是信息的本质和世界各地区之间的相互联系。
If you were President 50 years ago, the tragedy in Syria might not even penetrate what the American people were thinking about on a day-to-day basis. Today, they're seeing vivid images of a child in the aftermath of a bombing. There was a time when if you had a financial crisis in Southeast Asia somewhere, it had no impact on our markets; today it does. 如果你在50年前当总统，叙利亚的悲剧甚至可能不会渗透到美国人民日常思考的事情中。今天，他们看到的是一个孩子在爆炸后的生动画面。曾经有一段时间，如果东南亚某个地方发生金融危机，对我们的市场没有影响；今天却有影响。
So the amount of information, the amount of incoming that any Administration has to deal with today -- and respond to much more rapidly than ever before -- that makes it different. I was watching a documentary, that during the Bay of Pigs crisis, JFK had about two weeks before anybody reported on it. Imagine that. I think it's fair to say that if something like that happens under a current President, they've got to figure out in about an hour what their response is. 因此，任何一届政府今天必须处理的信息量、接收的事务量——并且必须比以往任何时候都更快地做出回应——这使得情况不同了。我在看一部纪录片，讲的是猪湾危机期间，肯尼迪大约有两周时间才有人报道这件事。想象一下。我认为公平地说，如果现任总统遇到类似的事情，他们必须在大约一小时内弄清楚该如何回应。
So these are the kinds of points that I shared with the President-elect. It was a free-flowing and, I think, useful conversation. I hope it was. I tried to be as honest as I could about the things I think any President coming in needs to think about. 这些就是我与当选总统分享的一些观点。那是一次自由流畅的、我认为很有意义的对话。我希望如此。我尽可能诚实地说出了我认为任何即将上任的总统都需要思考的事情。
And probably the most important point that I made was that how you staff -- particularly your chief of staff, your national security advisor, your White House counsel -- how you set up a process and a system to surface information, generate options for a President, understanding that ultimately the President is going to be the final decision-maker, that that's something that has to be attended to right away. 而我提出的最重要的一点可能是，你如何组建团队——特别是你的幕僚长、国家安全顾问、白宫法律顾问——你如何建立一个流程和系统来呈现信息、为总统提供选择，同时明白最终总统将是最终决策者，这是必须立即着手处理的事情。
I have been blessed by having -- and I admittedly am biased -- some of the smartest, hardest-working, good people in my Administration that I think any President has ever had. And as a consequence of that team, I've been able to make good decisions. And if you don't have that around you, then you'll get swamped. So I hope that he appreciated that advice. 我很幸运拥有——我承认我有偏见——我认为比任何一位总统都拥有的更聪明、更勤奋、更优秀的人在我的政府中任职。正因为有了那个团队，我才能做出好的决定。如果你身边没有这样的人，你就会应接不暇。所以我希望他领会了那条建议。
What I also discussed was the fact that I had been encouraged by his statements on election night about the need for unity and his interest in being the President for all people, and that how he staffs, the first steps he takes, the first impressions he makes, the reset that can happen after an election -- all those things are important and should be thought about. And I think it's important to give him the room and the space to do that. It takes time to put that together. 我还讨论了一点，就是我对他选举之夜关于团结必要性和他想成为全体人民总统的讲话感到鼓舞。他如何组建团队、他采取的第一步、他留下的第一印象、选举后可能发生的重启——所有这些都很重要，都应该认真考虑。我认为给他空间和时间来做这件事很重要。组建团队需要时间。
But I emphasized to him that, look, in an election like this that was so hotly contested and so divided, gestures matter. And how he reaches out to groups that may not have supported him, how he signals his interest in their issues or concerns, I think those are the kinds of things that can set a tone that will help move things forward once he's actually taken office. 但我向他强调，听着，在像这样激烈竞争、如此分裂的选举中，姿态很重要。他如何向可能不支持他的群体伸出援手，如何表明他对他们的问题或关切感兴趣，我认为这些都是可以定下基调的事情，有助于在他真正上任后推动事情向前发展。
Question: And how long did it take before you were at ease in the job? 问：你花了多长时间才在这个职位上感到从容？
President Obama: Well, I didn't really have time to worry about being at ease, because you'll recall we were losing about 800,000 jobs a month. 奥巴马总统：嗯，我真的没时间担心是否从容，因为你们还记得，我们当时每月失去大约80万个工作岗位。
So the good news is that in some ways my experience is atypical. It's hard to find an analogous situation. By the time FDR came into office, the Depression had been going on for a couple of years. We were in the midst of a free fall. The financial system was locking up. The auto industry was about to go belly up. The housing market had entirely collapsed. So one of the advantages that I had was that I was too busy to worry about how acclimated I was feeling in the job. We just had to make a bunch of decisions. 所以好消息是，在某些方面我的经历是非典型的。很难找到类似的情况。到富兰克林·罗斯福上任时，大萧条已经持续了好几年。我们当时正处于自由落体状态。金融体系正在冻结。汽车工业即将倒闭。房地产市场完全崩溃了。所以我的一个优势是，我太忙了，没时间担心自己对这份工作的适应程度。我们只需要做出一大堆决定。
In this situation, we're turning over a country that has challenges, has problems, and obviously there are people out there who are feeling deeply disaffected -- otherwise, we wouldn't have had the results that we had in the election. 在目前的情况下，我们移交的是一个有挑战、有问题的国家，显然有很多人感到深深的不满——否则我们不会有选举那样的结果。
On the other hand, if you look at the basic indicators of where the country is right now, the unemployment rate is as low as it's been in eight, nine years. Incomes and wages have both gone up over the last year faster than they have in a decade or two. We've got historically low uninsured rates. The financial systems are stable. The stock market is hovering around its all-time high, and 401(k)s have been restored. The housing market has recovered. 另一方面，如果你看看这个国家目前的基本指标，失业率是八九年来最低的。收入和工资在过去一年的增长速度比过去一二十年都要快。我们的参保率处于历史低位。金融体系稳定。股市在历史高点附近徘徊，401k退休计划已经恢复。房地产市场已经复苏。
We have challenges internationally, but our most immediate challenge with respect to ISIL, we're seeing significant progress in Iraq, and Mosul is now increasingly being retaken by Iraqi security forces supported by us. Our alliances are in strong shape. The progress we've made with respect to carbon emissions has been greater than any country on Earth. And gas is two bucks a gallon. 我们在国际上面临挑战，但在伊斯兰国方面我们最紧迫的挑战，我们正在伊拉克看到重大进展，摩苏尔现在正越来越多地被得到我们支持的伊拉克安全部队夺回。我们的联盟状态良好。我们在碳排放方面取得的进展比地球上任何国家都大。而且汽油每加仑才两美元。
So he will have time and space I think to make judicious decisions. The incoming Administration doesn't have to put out a huge number of fires. They may want to take the country in a significantly different direction, but they've got time to consider what exactly they want to achieve. And that's a testament to the tremendous work that my team has done over the last eight years. I'm very proud of them for it. 所以我认为他将有时间和空间做出明智的决定。新一届政府不必扑灭大量的火。他们可能想带领国家走向一个截然不同的方向，但他们有时间考虑他们究竟想要实现什么。这证明了我的团队八年来所做的巨大工作。我为此感到非常自豪。
Athena Jones. 雅典娜·琼斯。
Question: Thank you, Mr. President. You said more than once that you do not believe that Donald Trump would ever be elected President, and that you thought he was unfit for the office. Now that you've spent time with him, sitting down and talking to him for an hour and a half in the Oval Office, do you now think that President-elect Trump is qualified to be President? 问：谢谢你，总统先生。你不止一次说过，你不相信唐纳德·特朗普会当选总统，你认为他不适合这个职位。现在你已经和他相处了一段时间，在椭圆形办公室坐下来谈了一个半小时，你现在认为当选总统特朗普有资格担任总统吗？
And if I can do a compound question, the other one is you mentioned staffing and tone. What do you say to those Americans who may not doubt that there will be a peaceful transition but that are concerned about some of the policies and sentiments that were expressed by President-elect Trump himself or his supporters that may seem hostile to minorities and others? 我能不能再提一个复合问题，另一个问题是你提到了人员组建和基调。对于那些可能不怀疑会有和平过渡、但对当选总统特朗普本人或其支持者表达的一些政策和情绪感到担忧的美国人，你想说些什么？这些政策和情绪可能对少数族裔和其他人怀有敌意。
Specifically, I'm talking about the announcement that Steve Bannon, who is a proponent of the so-called alt-right movement, what many call the white nationalist movement, is going to have a prominent role in the White House under President Trump as his chief strategist and senior advisor. What message does that send to the country, to the world? 具体来说，我指的是史蒂夫·班农的任命，他是所谓另类右翼运动的支持者，许多人称之为白人民族主义运动，他将在特朗普总统的白宫担任重要职务，担任首席战略师兼高级顾问。这向国家、向世界传递了什么信息？
President Obama: Athena, without copping out, I think it's fair to say that it would not be appropriate for me to comment on every appointment that the President-elect starts making if I want to be consistent with the notion that we're going to try to facilitate a smooth transition. 奥巴马总统：雅典娜，我不是在逃避问题，我认为公平地说，如果我想与我们将努力促进平稳过渡的理念保持一致，我就不适合对当选总统开始做出的每一项任命发表评论。
Look, the people have spoken. Donald Trump will be the next President, the 45th President of the United States. And it will be up to him to set up a team that he thinks will serve him well and reflect his policies. And those who didn't vote for him have to recognize that that's how democracy works. That's how this system operates. 听着，人民已经发话了。唐纳德·特朗普将成为下一任总统，美国第45任总统。将由他来组建他认为能很好地为他服务并反映他政策的团队。那些没有投票给他的人必须认识到，民主就是这样运作的。这个体制就是这样运作的。
When I won, there were a number of people who didn't like me and didn't like what I stood for. And I think that whenever you've got an incoming President of the other side, particularly in a bitter election like this, it takes a while for people to reconcile themselves with that new reality. Hopefully it's a reminder that elections matter and voting counts. And so I don't know how many times we have to relearn this lesson, because we ended up having 43 percent of the country not voting who were eligible to vote. But it makes a difference. 我当选的时候，有很多人不喜欢我，不喜欢我的主张。我认为，每当对方阵营的新总统上任时，尤其是在像这样激烈的选举之后，人们需要一段时间才能接受新的现实。希望这提醒人们选举很重要，投票很重要。我不知道我们得重新吸取多少次这个教训，因为我们最终有43%有投票资格的人没有投票。但这确实有影响。
So given that President-elect Trump is now trying to balance what he said in the campaign and the commitments he made to his supporters with working with those who disagreed with him, and members of Congress, and reaching out to constituencies that didn't vote for him, I think it's important for us to let him make his decisions. And I think the American people will judge over the course of the next couple of years whether they like what they see, and whether these are the kinds of policies and this is the direction that they want to see the country go in. 因此，鉴于当选总统特朗普现在正试图平衡他在竞选期间所说的话和对支持者的承诺，与那些不同意他的人、国会议员合作，以及向没有投票给他的选民伸出援手，我认为我们应该让他做决定。我认为美国人民将在未来几年里判断他们是否喜欢他们所看到的，以及这些是否是他们希望国家走的政策和方向。
And my role is to make sure that when I hand off this White House that it is in the best possible shape and that I've been as helpful as I can to him in going forward and building on the progress that we've made. 而我的职责是确保当我移交这座白宫时，它处于最佳状态，我已经尽我所能帮助他继续前进，在我们取得的进展基础上继续建设。
And my advice, as I said, to the President-elect when we had our discussions was that campaigning is different from governing. I think he recognizes that. I think he's sincere in wanting to be a successful President and moving this country forward. And I don't think any President ever comes in saying to themselves, I want to figure out how to make people angry or alienate half the country. 正如我所说，我在与当选总统讨论时给他的建议是，竞选不同于执政。我认为他认识到了这一点。我认为他真心想成为一名成功的总统，推动这个国家前进。我不认为任何总统上任时会对自己说，我要想办法让人们愤怒或疏远半个国家。
I think he's going to try as best he can to make sure that he delivers, not only for the people who voted for him, but for the people at large. And the good thing is, is that there are going to be elections coming up, so there's a built-in incentive for him to try to do that. 我认为他会尽最大努力确保他不仅为投票给他的人，也为广大人民兑现承诺。好消息是，未来还会有选举，所以他有内在的动力去努力做到这一点。
But it's only been six days. And I think it will be important for him to have the room to staff up, to figure out what his priorities are, to be able to distinguish between what he was campaigning on and what is practical, what he can actually achieve. There are certain things that make for good sound bites but don't translate into good policy. And that's something that he and his team, I think, will wrestle with, in the same way that every President wrestles with. 但才过去六天。我认为对他来说，重要的是有空间来组建团队、弄清楚他的优先事项是什么、能够区分他竞选时的主张和什么是实际可行的、什么是他真正能够实现的。有些东西作为好听的竞选口号很不错，但不能转化为好的政策。这是他和他的团队，我认为，需要努力解决的问题，就像每一位总统都要面对的一样。
I did say to him, as I've said publicly, that because of the nature of the campaigns, and the bitterness and ferocity of the campaigns, that it's really important to try to send some signals of unity, and to reach out to minority groups or women or others that were concerned about the tenor of the campaign. 我确实对他说过，正如我公开说过的那样，由于竞选的性质，以及竞选的苦涩和激烈，发出一些团结的信号，向少数族裔群体或妇女或其他对竞选基调感到担忧的人伸出援手，真的很重要。
And I think that's something that he will want to do. But this is all happening real fast. He's got commitments to supporters that helped to get him here, and he's going to have to balance those. And over the coming weeks and months and years, my hope is, is that those impulses ultimately win out. But it's a little too early to start making judgments on that. 我认为这是他会想要做的事情。但这一切发生得太快了。他对帮助他走到今天的支持者有承诺，他必须平衡这些。在未来几周、几个月和几年里，我的希望是，那些冲动最终会胜出。但现在做出判断还为时过早。
Question: And your view of his qualifications. Has that changed after meeting with him? 问：你对他的资格的看法呢？见过他之后有改变吗？
President Obama: I think that he successfully mobilized a big chunk of the country to vote for him, and he's going to win -- he has won. He's going to be the next President. And regardless of what experience or assumptions he brought to the office, this office has a way of waking you up. And those aspects of his positions or predispositions that don't match up with reality he will find shaken up pretty quick, because reality has a way of asserting itself. 奥巴马总统：我认为他成功动员了全国很大一部分人投票给他，他会赢——他已经赢了。他将成为下一任总统。无论他带着什么样的经验或假设上任，这个职位都有办法让你清醒过来。他的立场或倾向中那些与现实不符的方面，他会很快发现被撼动了，因为现实总有办法坚持自己的主张。
And some of his gifts that obviously allowed him to execute one of the biggest political upsets in history -- those are ones that hopefully he will put to good use on behalf of all the American people. 而他的一些才能——显然让他实现了历史上最大的政治冷门之一——希望他能将这些才能善加利用，为全体美国人民服务。
Scott Horsley. 斯科特·霍斯利。
Question: Thank you, Mr. President. You're off to Europe, which is facing some of the same populous pressures we see at work in this country. When you spoke at the U.N., you talked about the choice we're facing between integration and building walls. What choice do you think the American people made last week? And is there still a chance for what you called a course correction before Europeans make some of their choices? 问：谢谢你，总统先生。你即将前往欧洲，那里正面临着一些与我们在这个国家看到的相同的民粹主义压力。当你在联合国发言时，你谈到了我们在一体化和筑墙之间面临的选择。你认为美国人民上周做出了什么选择？在欧洲人做出一些选择之前，还有没有机会进行你所说的路线修正？
President Obama: I think the American people recognize that the world has shrunk, that it's interconnected, that you're not going to put that genie back in the bottle. The American people recognize that their careers, or their kids' careers are going to have to be more dynamic -- that they might not be working at a single plant for 30 years, but they might have to change careers. They might have to get more education. They might have to retool or retrain. 奥巴马总统：我认为美国人民认识到世界已经缩小了，它是相互关联的，你不可能把那个精灵塞回瓶子里。美国人民认识到，他们的职业，或者他们孩子的职业，将必须更加充满活力——他们可能不会在一家工厂工作30年，而是可能不得不换工作。他们可能需要接受更多教育。他们可能需要重新装备或再培训。
And I think the American people are game for that. They want to make sure that the rules of the game are fair. And what that means is that if you look at surveys around Americans' attitudes on trade, the majority of the American people still support trade. But they're concerned about whether or not trade is fair, and whether we've got the same access to other countries' markets as they have with us; is there just a race to the bottom when it comes to wages, and so forth. 而且我认为美国人民对此是乐于接受的。他们希望确保游戏规则是公平的。这意味着，如果你看看关于美国人对贸易态度的调查，大多数美国人仍然支持贸易。但他们担心贸易是否公平，以及我们是否能像其他国家进入我们市场那样进入他们的市场；是不是只有工资竞相下降，等等。
Now, I made an argument -- thus far, unsuccessfully -- that the trade deal we had organized, TPP, did exactly that, that it strengthened workers' rights and environmental rights, leveled the playing field and, as a consequences, would be good for American workers and American businesses. But that's a complex argument to make when people remember plants closing and jobs being offshored. 现在，我曾提出论点——迄今为止没有成功——我们组织的贸易协定，即跨太平洋伙伴关系协定，正是这样做的，它加强了工人权利和环境权利，创造了公平的竞争环境，因此对美国工人和美国企业都有好处。但当人们记得工厂关闭和工作被外包时，这是一个复杂的论点。
So part of what I think this election reflected was people wanting that course correction that you described. And the message around stopping surges of immigration, not creating new trade deals that may be unfair -- I think those were themes that played a prominent role in the campaign. 所以我认为这次选举部分反映了人们想要你所描述的那种路线修正。而关于阻止移民潮、不缔结可能不公平的新贸易协定的信息——我认为这些是竞选中发挥了突出作用的主题。
As we now shift to governing, my argument is that we do need to make sure that we have an orderly, lawful immigration process, but that if it is orderly and lawful, immigration is good for our economy. It keeps this country young. It keeps it dynamic. We have entrepreneurs and strivers who come here and are willing to take risks. And that's part of the reason why America, historically, has been successful. It's part of the reason why our economy is stronger and better positioned than most of our other competitors, is because we got a younger population that's more dynamic. 随着我们现在转向执政，我的论点是，我们确实需要确保我们有一个有序、合法的移民程序，但如果它是有序和合法的，移民对我们的经济是有益的。它让这个国家保持年轻。它让它充满活力。我们有来到这里并愿意承担风险的企业家和奋斗者。这就是美国历史上成功的部分原因。这也是我们的经济比大多数其他竞争对手更强大、更有优势的部分原因，因为我们有更年轻、更有活力的人口。
When it comes to trade, I think when you're governing, it will become increasingly apparent that if you were to just eliminate trade deals with Mexico, for example, well, you've got a global supply chain. The parts that are allowing auto plants that were about to shut down to now employ double shifts is because they're bringing in some of those parts to assemble out of Mexico. And so it's not as simple as it might have seemed. 谈到贸易，我认为当你执政时，会越来越明显的是，如果你仅仅取消与墨西哥的贸易协定，那么，你有一个全球供应链。那些让即将关闭的汽车工厂现在实行双班制的零部件，是因为它们从墨西哥进口一些零部件来组装的。所以事情并不像看起来那么简单。
And the key for us -- when I say "us," I mean Americans, but I think particularly for progressives -- is to say your concerns are real, your anxieties are real; here's how we fix them: Higher minimum wage. Stronger worker protections so workers have more leverage to get a bigger piece of the pie. Stronger financial regulations, not weaker ones. Yes to trade, but trade that ensures that these other countries that trade with us aren't engaging in child labor, for example. 对我们来说——当我说"我们"时，我指的是美国人，但我认为特别是进步人士——关键是要说你的担忧是真实的，你的焦虑是真实的；我们来这样解决：提高最低工资。加强工人保护，让工人有更多的筹码分到更大的一块蛋糕。加强金融监管，而不是削弱。支持贸易，但要确保与我们贸易的其他国家没有从事童工活动，例如。
Being attentive to inequality and not tone deaf to it, but offering prescriptions that are actually going to help folks that are in communities that feel forgotten. 关注不平等问题，不要对此充耳不闻，而是提供真正能帮助那些感到被遗忘的社区中人们的解决方案。
That's going to be our most important strategy. And I think we can successfully do that. People will still be looking to the United States. Our example will still carry great weight. And it continues to be my strong belief that the way we are going to make sure that everybody feels a part of this global economy is not by shutting ourselves off from each other even if we could, but rather by working together more effectively than we have in the past. 这将是我们最重要的战略。我认为我们能够成功做到这一点。人们仍将期待美国。我们的榜样仍将具有重大分量。我仍然坚信，我们确保每个人都感受到自己是全球经济一部分的方式，不是通过彼此隔绝，即使我们能做到，而是通过比过去更有效地合作。
Martha Raddatz. 玛莎·拉达茨。
Question: Thanks, Mr. President. We heard some of the harsh words you had about Mr. Trump, calling him "temperamentally unfit to be Commander-in-Chief." Did anything surprise you about President-elect Trump when you met with him in your office? And also I want to know, does anything concern you about a Trump presidency? 问：谢谢你，总统先生。我们听到了你对特朗普先生的一些尖锐评价，称他"性格上不适合担任总司令"。你在办公室会见当选总统特朗普时，有没有什么让你感到惊讶的地方？我还想知道，你对特朗普的总统任期有什么担忧吗？
President Obama: Well, we had a very cordial conversation. And that didn't surprise me to some degree because I think that he is obviously a gregarious person. He's somebody who I think likes to mix it up and to have a vigorous debate. 奥巴马总统：嗯，我们进行了一次非常亲切的交谈。这在某种程度上并不让我感到惊讶，因为我认为他显然是一个爱交际的人。他是那种我认为喜欢搅局、喜欢激烈辩论的人。
And what's clear is that he was able to tap into, yes, the anxiety, but also the enthusiasm of his voters in a way that was impressive. And I said so to him, because I think that to the extent that there were a lot of folks who missed the Trump phenomenon, I think that connection that he was able to make with his supporters that was impervious to events that might have sunk another candidate, that's powerful stuff. 显而易见的是，他能够利用——是的，利用焦虑，但也利用他的选民的热情——以一种令人印象深刻的方式。我对他这样说了，因为我认为，在很多人没有注意到特朗普现象的程度上，他能够与支持者建立的那种联系，不受可能击垮另一位候选人的事件影响，是很有力量的。
I also think that he is coming to this office with fewer set hard-and-fast policy prescriptions than a lot of other Presidents might be arriving with. I don't think he is ideological. I think ultimately he's pragmatic in that way. And that can serve him well, as long as he's got good people around him and he has a clear sense of direction. 我还认为，他上任时持有的固定、硬性的政策方案比许多其他总统可能要少。我不认为他是意识形态化的。我认为从根本上说他在这方面是务实的。只要他身边有优秀的人，有明确的方向感，这对他会有好处。
Do I have concerns? Absolutely. Of course, I've got concerns. He and I differ on a whole bunch of issues. But the federal government and our democracy is not a speedboat, it's an ocean liner -- as I discovered when I came into office. It took a lot of really hard work for us to make significant policy changes -- even in our first two years, when we had larger majorities than Mr. Trump will enjoy when he comes into office. 我有担忧吗？当然有。当然，我有担忧。他和我在很多问题上都有分歧。但联邦政府和我们的民主不是一艘快艇，而是一艘远洋邮轮——正如我上任时发现的那样。我们付出了非常艰苦的努力才做出重大政策改变——即使在我们头两年，我们拥有的多数优势也比特朗普先生上任时将拥有的更大。
And one of the things I advised him to do was to make sure that before he commits to certain courses of action, he's really dug in and thought through how various issues play themselves out. I'll use an obvious example where we have a difference, but it will be interesting to see what happens in the coming year, and that's the Affordable Care Act. 我建议他做的一件事是，在他承诺采取某些行动方针之前，要真正深入研究并想清楚各种问题会如何发展。我会用一个我们有分歧的明显例子，但看看明年会发生什么会很有趣，那就是《平价医疗法案》。
So obviously this has been the Holy Grail for Republicans over the last six, seven years -- was "we've got to kill Obamacare." Now, that has been taken as an article of faith -- that this is terrible, it doesn't work and we have to undo it. 所以很明显，这在过去六七年里一直是共和党人的圣杯——就是"我们必须推翻奥巴马医改"。现在，这已经被当作信条——认为它很糟糕，不起作用，我们必须撤销它。
But now that Republicans are in charge, they got to take a look and say, let's see, we got 20 million people who have health insurance who didn't have it before; health care costs generally have gone up at a significantly slower rate since Obamacare was passed than they did before, which has saved the federal Treasury hundreds of billions of dollars; 但现在共和党人掌权了，他们得看看，让我们想想，我们有2000万人以前没有医保现在有了；自奥巴马医改通过以来，医疗成本的增长速度比以前慢得多，这为联邦财政部节省了数千亿美元；
people who have health insurance are benefitting in all sorts of ways that they may not be aware of -- everything from no longer having lifetime limits on the claims that they can make, to seniors getting prescription drug discounts under Medicare, to free mammograms. 有医保的人正在以各种他们可能没有意识到的方式受益——从不再有终身理赔限额，到老年人在联邦医疗保险下获得处方药折扣，再到免费的乳房X光检查。
Now, it's one thing to characterize this thing as not working when it's just an abstraction. Now, suddenly, you're in charge and you're going to repeal it. Okay, well, what happens to those 20 million people who have health insurance? Are you going to just kick them off and suddenly they don't have health insurance? And in what ways are their lives better because of that? 现在，当它只是一个抽象概念时，说这件事不起作用是一回事。现在，突然间，你掌权了，你要废除它。好吧，那么那2000万有医保的人怎么办？你要把他们踢出去，让他们突然没有医保吗？那样他们的生活会在哪些方面变得更好呢？
Are you going to repeal the provision that ensures that if you do have health insurance on your job, and you lose your job or you change jobs or you start a small business that you're not discriminated against because you've got a preexisting condition? That's really popular. How are you going to replace it? Are you going to change the policy that kids can stay on their parents' health insurance plan until they're 26? How are you going to approach all these issues? 你会废除这样一项规定吗——它确保如果你确实有工作上的医保，而你失业了或换工作了或创办了小企业，你不会因为有既往病史而受到歧视？那项规定真的很受欢迎。你打算怎么取代它？你会改变孩子可以在父母的医保计划上保留到26岁的政策吗？你打算如何处理所有这些问题？
Now, my view is that if they can come up with something better that actually works, and a year or two after they've replaced the Affordable Care Act with their own plan, that 25 million people have health insurance, and it's cheaper and better and running smoothly, I'll be the first one to say, that's great -- congratulations. 我的看法是，如果他们能想出更好的、真正有效的办法，在他们用自己的计划取代《平价医疗法案》一两年后，有2500万人有医保，而且更便宜、更好、运行更顺畅，我会第一个说，太好了——恭喜。
If, on the other hand, whatever they're proposing results in millions of people losing coverage, and results in people who already have health insurance losing protections that were contained in the legislation, then we're going to have a problem. And I think that's not going to be unique to me; I think the American people will respond that way. 另一方面，如果他们提出的任何方案导致数百万人失去保险，导致已经有医保的人失去法案中包含的保护，那么我们就会有问题了。我认为这不只是我一个人的看法；美国人民也会那样回应的。
So I think on a lot of issues, what you're going to see is now comes the hard part. Now is governance. We are going to be able to present to the incoming Administration a country that is stronger, a federal government that is working better and more efficiently; a national security apparatus that is both more effective and truer to our values; energy policies that are resulting in not just less pollution, but also more jobs. 所以我认为，在很多问题上，你将看到的是，现在到了困难的部分。现在是执政阶段。我们将能够向新一届政府呈现一个更强大的国家、一个运转得更好、更高效的联邦政府；一个既更有效又更忠于我们价值观的国家安全机构；不仅减少了污染还创造了更多就业的能源政策。
And I think the President-elect, rightly, would expect that he's judged on whether we improve from that baseline and on those metrics, or things get worse. And if things get worse, then the American people will figure that out pretty quick. And if things get better, then more power to him. And I'll be the first to congratulate him. 我认为当选总统会理所当然地期望，人们会根据我们是否在那个基线和那些指标上有所改善，或者情况是否变得更糟来评判他。如果情况变得更糟，美国人民会很快发现的。如果情况变得更好，那就更有力量了。我会第一个向他表示祝贺。
Question: Mr. President, you had talked specifically about his temperament. Do you still have any concern about his temperament? 问：总统先生，你曾专门谈到过他的性格。你还对他的性格有任何担忧吗？
President Obama: As I said -- because, Athena asked the question -- whatever you bring to this office, this office has a habit of magnifying and pointing out, and hopefully then you correct for it. 奥巴马总统：正如我所说——因为雅典娜问过这个问题——无论你带着什么进入这个职位，这个职位都会放大和指出问题，希望然后你能纠正它。
This may seem like a silly example, but I know myself well enough to know I can't keep track of paper. I am not well organized in that way. And so pretty quickly, after I'm getting stacks of briefing books coming in every night, I say to myself, I've got to figure out a system because I have bad filing, sorting and organizing habits. And I've got to find some people who can help me keep track of this stuff. That seems trivial, but actually it ends up being a pretty big piece of business. 这可能看起来像个愚蠢的例子，但我足够了解自己，知道我管不好文件。我在这方面没有条理。所以很快，当我每天晚上收到成堆的简报书时，我对自己说，我得想出一个系统，因为我的归档、整理和组织习惯很差。我得找一些人来帮我管理这些东西。这看起来微不足道，但实际上最终是相当重要的一件事。
I think what will happen with the President-elect is there are going to be certain elements of his temperament that will not serve him well unless he recognizes them and corrects them. Because when you're a candidate and you say something that is inaccurate or controversial, it has less impact than it does when you're President of the United States. Everybody around the world is paying attention. Markets move. National security issues require a level of precision in order to make sure that you don't make mistakes. And I think he recognizes that this is different, and so do the American people. 我认为当选总统将会遇到的情况是，他性格中的某些元素不会对他有好处，除非他认识到并纠正它们。因为当你是候选人时，你说一些不准确或有争议的话，其影响比你当美国总统时要小。全世界都在关注。市场会波动。国家安全问题需要一定程度的精确性，以确保你不犯错误。我认为他认识到这是不同的，美国人民也是如此。
All right, I'm going to take just a couple more questions and then I get out of here. 好的，我再回答几个问题然后就走。
Nadia Bilbassy. 纳迪亚·比尔巴西。
Question: Thank you, Mr. President. President-elect Trump threatened to unravel the Iran nuclear deal that your Administration worked very hard to get. What would be a concern if he alters part of it? And what would your advice be, considering that he said he's open to advice? 问：谢谢你，总统先生。当选总统特朗普威胁要撕毁你的政府努力达成的伊朗核协议。如果他改变其中的一部分，会有什么担忧？考虑到他说愿意听取建议，你的建议是什么？
And on Syria, sir, the Syrian regime now is threatening Aleppo with massive destruction. You spoke passionately a few years back about Benghazi and you warned against the killing of civilians there. Many people criticized your Administration for the shortcoming of the Syria policy. Are you willing to admit any fault under your watch? And how do you act with President-elect Trump says that he won't support the Syrian opposition? Thank you. 还有叙利亚问题，先生，叙利亚政权现在威胁要大规模摧毁阿勒颇。几年前你曾就班加西发表过充满激情的讲话，你警告过那里的平民杀戮。许多人批评你的政府在叙利亚政策上的不足。你愿意承认在你任内有任何过错吗？当当选总统特朗普说他不会支持叙利亚反对派时，你将如何行动？谢谢。
President Obama: Iran is a good example of the gap I think between some of the rhetoric in this town -- not unique to the President-elect -- and the reality. I think there was a really robust debate about the merits of the Iran deal before it was completed. And I actually was pretty proud of how our democracy processed that. It was a serious debate. I think people of goodwill were on both sides of the issue. Ultimately, we were able to persuade members of Congress and the public -- at least enough of them -- to support it. 奥巴马总统：伊朗就是一个很好的例子，说明我认为华盛顿的一些言论——不仅限于当选总统——与现实之间的差距。我认为在协议达成之前，关于伊朗协议的利弊有过非常激烈的辩论。实际上，我对我们的民主如何处理这个问题感到相当自豪。那是一场严肃的辩论。我认为善意的人站在问题的两边。最终，我们能够说服国会议员和公众——至少足够多的人——支持它。
At the time, the main argument against it was Iran wouldn't abide by the deal, that they would cheat. We now have over a year of evidence that they have abided by the agreement. That's not just my opinion, it's not just people in my Administration. That's the opinion of Israeli military and intelligence officers who are part of a government that vehemently opposed the deal. 当时，反对它的主要论点是伊朗不会遵守协议，他们会作弊。我们现在有一年多的证据表明他们遵守了协议。这不只是我的意见，也不只是我政府里人的意见。这是以色列军方和情报官员的意见，他们所在的政府强烈反对这项协议。
So my suspicion is, is that when the President-elect comes in, and he's consulting with his Republican colleagues on the Hill, that they will look at the facts. Because to unravel a deal that's working and preventing Iran from pursuing a nuclear weapon would be hard to explain -- particularly if the alternative were to have them freed from any obligations and go ahead and pursue a weapon. 所以我的猜测是，当选总统上任后，当他与国会山上的共和党同僚磋商时，他们会审视事实。因为撕毁一项正在发挥作用、正在阻止伊朗追求核武器的协议将很难解释——特别是如果替代方案是让他们摆脱任何义务，继续追求核武器的话。
And keep in mind this is not just an international agreement between us and the Iranians; this is between the P5+1, other countries, some of our closest allies. And for us to pull out would then require us to start sanctioning those other countries in Europe or China or Russia that were still abiding by the deal because, from their perspective, Iran had done what it was supposed to do. 请记住，这不只是我们和伊朗之间的国际协议；这是P5+1，其他国家，我们一些最亲密盟友之间的协议。如果我们退出，那么我们就必须开始制裁那些仍在遵守协议的欧洲、中国或俄罗斯国家，因为在他们看来，伊朗已经做了它应该做的事。
So it becomes more difficult I think to undo something that's working than undo something that isn't working. And when you're not responsible for it, I think you can call it a terrible deal. When you are responsible for the deal and preventing Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, you're more likely to look at the facts. 所以我认为，撤销一件正在起作用的事情比撤销一件不起作用的事情更难。当你不需要对此负责时，我认为你可以称之为一个糟糕的协议。当你对协议负责、对阻止伊朗获得核武器负责时，你更有可能审视事实。
That is going to be true in other circumstances. For example, the Paris agreement. There's been a lot of talk about the possibility of undoing this international agreement. Now, you've got 200 countries that have signed up to this thing. And the good news is that what we've been able to show over the last five, six, eight years is that it's possible to grow the economy really fast and possible to bring down carbon emissions as well. 在其他情况下也是如此。例如，巴黎协定。关于撤销这项国际协议的可能性有很多讨论。现在，有200个国家签署了这项协议。好消息是，我们在过去五年、六年、八年里能够证明的是，快速发展经济和降低碳排放都是可能的。
It's not just a bunch of rules that we've set up. You've got utilities that are putting in solar panels and creating jobs. You've got the Big Three automakers who have seen record sales and are overachieving on the fuel efficiency standards that we set. Turns out that people like not having to fill up as often and save money at the pump, even if it's good for the environment. 这不只是我们制定的一堆规则。有公用事业公司在安装太阳能电池板并创造就业机会。三大汽车制造商的销量创纪录，并超额完成了我们设定的燃油效率标准。事实证明，人们喜欢不用那么频繁地加油，还能在加油站省钱，即使这对环境有好处。
You've got states like California that have been moving forward on a clean energy agenda separate and apart from any federal regulations that have been put forward. In fact, 40 percent of the country already lives under -- in states that are actively pursuing what's embodied in the Paris agreement and the Clean Power Plan rule. 像加利福尼亚这样的州一直在推进清洁能源议程，与已提出的任何联邦法规都是分开的。事实上，全国40%的人口已经生活在——那些正在积极推行巴黎协定和清洁电力计划规则中所体现内容的州。
And even states like Texas that politically tend to oppose me -- you've seen huge increases in wind power and solar power. And you've got some of the country's biggest companies, like Google and Walmart, all pursuing energy efficiency because it's good for their bottom line. 即使像德克萨斯这样在政治上倾向于反对我的州——你也看到了风能和太阳能的大幅增长。还有一些全国最大的公司，如谷歌和沃尔玛，都在追求能源效率，因为这对它们的盈利有好处。
So what we've been able to do is to embed a lot of these practices into how our economy works. And it's made our economy more efficient, it's helped the bottom line of folks, and it's cleaned up the environment. 所以我们已经能够做的是，将许多这些做法融入我们经济的运作方式中。这使我们的经济更有效率，帮助了人们的收入，也净化了环境。
What the Paris agreement now does is say to China and India and other countries that are potentially polluting, come onboard; let's work together so you guys do the same thing. 巴黎协定现在所做的是对中国、印度和其他可能造成污染的国家说，加入进来；让我们一起努力，你们也做同样的事情。
And the biggest threat when it comes to climate change and pollution isn't going to come from us -- because we only have 300 million people. It's going to come from China, with over a billion people, and India, with over a billion people. And if they are pursuing the same kinds of strategies that we did before we became more aware of the environment, then our kids will be choked off. 而气候变化和污染的最大威胁不会来自我们——因为我们只有3亿人口。它将来自拥有超过10亿人口的中国，以及拥有超过10亿人口的印度。如果他们正在推行我们在更加意识到环境问题之前所采取的同类策略，那么我们的孩子将窒息而亡。
And so, again, do I think that the new Administration will make some changes? Absolutely. But these international agreements, the tradition has been that you carry them forward across Administrations, particularly if, once you actually examine them, it turns out that they're doing good for us and binding other countries into behavior that will help us. 所以，再说一次，我认为新政府会做出一些改变吗？当然会。但这些国际协定的传统是，它们会在历届政府中延续下去，特别是一旦你真正审视它们，结果发现它们对我们有好处，并约束其他国家采取对我们有帮助的行为。
Last question. Justin Sink. 最后一个问题。贾斯汀·辛克。
Question: Sir, on Syria. 问：先生，关于叙利亚。
President Obama: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Okay, you're right. You are right about that. 奥巴马总统：对不起，对不起。好的，你说得对。你说得对。
With respect to Syria -- in Benghazi, we had an international mandate. We had a U.N. Security resolution. We had a broad-based coalition, and we were able to carry out a support mission that achieved the initial goal of preventing Benghazi from being slaughtered fairly quickly. It's no secret -- you know this region well -- that Syria is a much more messy situation, with proxies coming from every direction. 关于叙利亚——在班加西，我们有国际授权。我们有联合国安理会决议。我们有基础广泛的联盟，我们能够执行一项支援任务，最初的目标是防止班加西被屠杀，而且很快就实现了。这不是秘密——你很了解这个地区——叙利亚的情况要混乱得多，代理人来自四面八方。
And so I wish that I could bring this to a halt immediately. We have made every effort to try to bring about a political resolution to this challenge. John Kerry has spent an infinite amount of time trying to negotiate with Russians and Iranians and Gulf States and other parties to try to end the killing there. But if what you're asking is do we have the capacity to carry out the same kinds of military actions in Syria that we did in Libya, the situation is obviously different. We don't have that option easily available to us. 所以我希望我能立即制止这一切。我们已经尽一切努力为这一挑战寻求政治解决方案。约翰·克里花了无数时间试图与俄罗斯、伊朗、海湾国家和其他各方谈判，试图结束那里的杀戮。但如果你问的是我们是否有能力在叙利亚采取与在利比亚同样的军事行动，情况显然不同。我们没有那么容易获得的选项。
And so we're going to have to continue to try to pursue, as best we can, a political solution and, in the interim, put as much pressure as we can on the parties to arrive at humanitarian safe spaces and ceasefires that at least alleviate the suffering that's on the ground. 因此，我们将不得不继续尽我们所能寻求政治解决方案，在此期间，尽可能向各方施压，以达成人道主义安全空间和停火，至少减轻当地的苦难。
I recognize that that has not worked. And it is something that I continue to think about every day, and we continue to try to find some formula that would allow us to see that suffering end. 我认识到这没有奏效。这是我每天都在继续思考的事情，我们继续努力寻找某种方案，让苦难得以终结。
But I think it's not surprising to you, because you study this deeply, that if you have a Syrian military that is committed to killing its people indiscriminately, as necessary, and it is supported by Russia that now have substantial military assets on the ground and are actively supporting that regime, and Iran actively supporting that regime, and we are supporting what has to be our number-one national security priority, which is going after ISIL both in Mosul and ultimately in Raqqa -- that the situation is not the same as it was in Libya. 但我认为这对你来说并不意外，因为你深入研究过这个问题，如果叙利亚军队致力于不分青红皂白地杀害其人民，如有必要，而且它得到了俄罗斯的支持——俄罗斯现在在地面上有大量军事资产，并积极支持该政权——以及伊朗积极支持该政权，而我们支持的必须是我们的头号国家安全优先事项，即在摩苏尔以及最终在拉卡打击伊斯兰国——那么情况就与利比亚不同了。
And obviously there are some who question the steps we took in Libya. I continue to believe that was the right thing to do, although, as I indicated before, in the aftermath of that campaign, I think the world community did not sufficiently support the need for some sort of security structures there and now is a situation that we have to get back into a better place. 显然，有些人质疑我们在利比亚采取的步骤。我仍然认为那是正确的做法，尽管如我之前所说，在那场行动之后，我认为国际社会没有充分支持在那里建立某种安全结构的需要，现在的情况是我们必须回到一个更好的状态。
I've given you -- last question is Justin Sink of Bloomberg. 我说过了——最后一个问题是彭博社的贾斯汀·辛克。
Question: Thanks, Mr. President. I wanted to ask about two things that might be on your desk over the next couple months as you prepare for a Trump Administration. One is at least three-quarters of a million undocumented immigrants provided the federal government information about themselves and their families as part of your deferred action program. I'm wondering if there's anything you can do to either reassure them or shield that information from the incoming Trump Administration, considering his stance on immigration. 问：谢谢你，总统先生。我想问两件事，在你为特朗普政府做准备的这几个月里，它们可能会出现在你的办公桌上。一件是，至少有75万无证移民作为你的暂缓遣返计划的一部分，向联邦政府提供了他们自己和家人的信息。我想知道你是否能做些什么来安抚他们，或者保护这些信息不被即将上任的特朗普政府获取，考虑到他在移民问题上的立场。
And the second is, the Administration and you have long maintained that the legal constraints upon you by Congress governing the movement of detainees from Gitmo are an unconstitutional infringement on your right as Commander-in-Chief. Considering that the gradual transfers that you've pursued are unlikely to continue under a Trump Administration, is this now the time to sort of test that theory by moving the detainees and see where the chips will lie? 第二件事是，政府和你长期以来一直认为，国会对关塔那摩在押人员转移施加的法律限制，是对你作为总司令权利的违宪侵犯。考虑到你所推行的渐进式转移在特朗普政府下不太可能继续，现在是不是时候来检验这个理论，转移在押人员，看看结果会如何？
President Obama: Those are both excellent questions. On the deferred action program that we have known as DACA that relates to DREAMers who are currently benefitting from these provisions, I will urge the President-elect and the incoming Administration to think long and hard before they are endangering that status of what for all practical purposes are American kids. 奥巴马总统：这两个都是很好的问题。关于我们称为DACA的暂缓行动项目，它涉及目前从这些规定中受益的梦想生，我将敦促当选总统和新一届政府在危及这些实际上是美国孩子的人的身份之前，要深思熟虑。
These are kids who were brought here by their parents. They did nothing wrong. They've gone to school. They have pledged allegiance to the flag. Some of them have joined the military. They've enrolled in school. By definition, if they're part of this program, they are solid, wonderful young people of good character. And it is my strong belief that the majority of the American people would not want to see suddenly those kids have to start hiding again. And that's something that I will encourage the President-elect to look at. 这些孩子是被父母带到这里的。他们没有做错任何事。他们上学了。他们宣誓效忠国旗。他们中的一些人参军了。他们入学了。根据定义，如果他们是这个项目的一部分，他们就是可靠、优秀、品格良好的年轻人。我坚信，大多数美国人民不希望看到这些孩子突然又要开始躲躲藏藏。这是我将鼓励当选总统考虑的事情。
With respect to Guantanamo, it is true that I have not been able to close the darn thing because of the congressional restrictions that have been placed on us. What is also true is we have greatly reduced the population. You now have significantly less than a hundred people there. There are some additional transfers that may be taking place over the next two months. 关于关塔那摩，确实，由于国会对我们施加的限制，我未能关闭那个鬼地方。同样真实的是，我们已经大大减少了在押人数。现在那里的人数大大少于100人。未来两个月可能还会有一些额外的转移。
There is a group of very dangerous people that we have strong evidence of having been guilty of committing terrorist acts against the United States. But because of the nature of the evidence, in some cases, that evidence being compromised, it's very difficult to put them before a typical Article III court. And that group has always been the biggest challenge for us. My strong belief and preference is that we would be much better off closing Gitmo, moving them to a different facility that was clearly governed by U.S. jurisdiction. We'd do it a lot cheaper and just as safely. 有一群非常危险的人，我们有强有力的证据证明他们对美国犯下了恐怖主义行为。但由于证据的性质，在某些情况下证据存在瑕疵，很难将他们送上典型的联邦第三条法院。这一群人一直是我们最大的挑战。我坚信并倾向于认为，关闭关塔那摩、将他们转移到一个明确受美国司法管辖的不同设施会好得多。我们可以花更少的钱，而且同样安全。
Congress disagrees with me, and I gather that the President-elect does, as well. We will continue to explore options for doing that. But keep in mind that it's not just a matter of what I'm willing to do. One of the things you discover about being President is that there are all these rules and norms and laws, and you got to pay attention to them. And the people who work for you are also subject to those rules and norms. And that's a piece of advice that I gave to the incoming President. 国会不同意我的看法，我想当选总统也不同意。我们将继续探索这样做的选择。但请记住，这不只是我愿意做什么的问题。你当总统后会发现的一件事是，有所有这些规则、规范和法律，你必须注意它们。为你工作的人也受这些规则和规范的约束。这是我给新任总统的一条建议。
I am very proud of the fact that we will -- knock on wood -- leave this Administration without significant scandal. We've made mistakes, there have been screw-ups, but I will put the ethics of this Administration and our track record in terms of just abiding by the rules and norms, and keeping trust with the American people -- I will put this Administration against any Administration in history. 我非常自豪的是，我们——但愿不会出事——将在没有重大丑闻的情况下离开这届政府。我们犯过错误，出过纰漏，但我会把这届政府的道德水准和我们在遵守规则和规范、与美国人民保持信任方面的记录——我会把这届政府与历史上任何一届政府相比。
And the reason is because, frankly, we listened to the lawyers. And we had a strong White House Counsel's Office. We had a strong Ethics Office. We had people in every agency whose job it was to remind people, this is how you're supposed to do things. It doesn't mean everybody always did everything exactly the way it's supposed to -- because we got 2 million people working in the federal government, if you're including the military, and so we had to just try to institutionalize this as much as we could. And that takes a lot of work. 原因是因为，坦率地说，我们听了律师的话。我们有一个强大的白宫法律顾问办公室。我们有一个强大的道德办公室。我们在每个机构都有人，他们的工作就是提醒人们，事情应该怎么做。这并不意味着每个人总是完全按照应该的方式做每件事——因为如果算上军队，我们有200万人在联邦政府工作，所以我们必须尽可能地将这制度化。而这需要大量的工作。
And one of my suggestions to the incoming President is, is that he take that part of the job seriously, as well. Again, you wouldn't know this if you were listening to some news outlets, or some members of oversight committees in Congress. But if you actually look at the facts, it works. 我对新任总统的建议之一是，他也要认真对待这部分工作。再说一次，如果你听一些新闻媒体或国会监督委员会一些成员的话，你不会知道这一点。但如果你真的看看事实，它是有效的。
And this is just one example of the numerous ways in which the federal government is much better today than it was, without people really knowing. You look at VA. People remember the legitimate problems that were publicized in Phoenix. It was scandalous what happened. What people don't remember is, is that we've brought in well over a million people who are getting benefits that weren't getting it before, driven the backlog for disability benefits way down, cut homelessness in half. Just made the agency work better -- not work perfect, but work better. 这只是众多例子中的一个，说明联邦政府今天比以前好得多，而人们并不真正知道。你看看退伍军人事务部。人们记得凤凰城曝光的那些合理问题。发生的事情是可耻的。人们不记得的是，我们已经让超过100万以前没有领取福利的人领到了福利，大幅减少了残疾福利的积压，将无家可归者减少了一半。只是让这个机构运转得更好——不是完美，而是更好。
And one of the mottos I always had with my staff was, better is good. Perfect is unattainable. Better is possible. 我对我的工作人员常说的一句座右铭是，更好就够了。完美不可企及。但进步是可能的。
And so we will try to share the lessons that we've learned over these last eight years with the incoming President. And my hope is he makes things better. And if he does, we'll all benefit from it. 因此，我们将努力把这八年来学到的教训分享给新任总统。我希望他能让事情变得更好。如果他做到了，我们都会从中受益。
All right? Thank you, everybody. You guys, some of you who are traveling, you'll get a chance to ask more questions. All right? 好吗？谢谢大家。你们当中要随行出访的一些人，会有机会问更多问题。好吗？
Thank you. 谢谢。