President Obama: I thought it was a slow day, so I've -- 奥巴马总统：我以为今天比较清闲，所以我——
Question: Slow news day, huh? 提问：没什么大新闻，是吧？
President Obama: -- bring the other guy in. 奥巴马总统：——把另一位请出来。
Obviously, there's a big debate going on about taxes, and about the need to grow the economy and to create jobs. And just about every day this week, I've been making an argument as to why the agreement that we've struck to provide billions of dollars in payroll tax cuts that can immediately help rejuvenate the economy, as well as tax cuts for middle-class families, unemployment insurance for folks who desperately need it, credits for college, Child Tax Credits, as well as a range of business investments credits are so important to make sure that we keep this recovery moving. 显然，目前围绕税收以及促进经济增长、创造就业的必要性，正展开一场激烈辩论。本周几乎每一天，我都在说明我们达成的协议为什么如此重要：协议将提供数十亿美元的工资税减免，可以立即为经济复苏注入活力；还包括中产阶级家庭减税、为迫切需要帮助的人延长失业保险、大学教育税收抵免、儿童税收抵免，以及一系列企业投资税收抵免。这些措施对于确保经济复苏持续推进都至关重要。
I just had a terrific meeting with the former President, President Bill Clinton. And we just happened to have this as a topic of conversation. And I thought, given the fact that he presided over as good an economy as we've seen in our lifetimes, that it might be useful for him to share some of his thoughts. 我刚才与前总统比尔·克林顿进行了一次非常愉快的会谈，我们恰好谈到了这个话题。考虑到他任内的经济表现堪称我们有生以来所见的最佳水平之一，我想请他分享一些看法，或许会对大家有所帮助。
I'm going to let him speak very briefly. And then I've actually got to go over and do some -- just one more Christmas party. So he may decide he wants to take some questions, but I want to make sure that you guys hear it from him directly. 我请他简短讲几句。之后我还得赶去参加——最后一场圣诞聚会。他可能会决定回答几个问题，但我想确保大家能直接听到他的看法。
Former President Clinton: Thank you very much, Mr. President. First of all, I feel awkward being here, and now you're going to leave me all by myself. Let me just say a couple of things. First of all, I still spend about an hour a day trying to study this economy. And I'm not running for anything, and I don't have a political agenda. I just -- I try to figure out what to do. 前总统克林顿：非常感谢您，总统先生。首先，我坐在这里感到有些不自在，而您现在又要把我一个人留下。让我简单说几点。首先，我每天仍会花大约一小时研究经济形势。我不竞选任何职位，也没有政治议程。我只是——努力想弄明白该怎么做。
I have reviewed this agreement that the President reached with Republican leaders. And I want to make full disclosure I make quite a bit of money now, so the position that the Republicans have urged will personally benefit me. And on its own, I wouldn't support it because I don't think that my tax cut is the most economically efficient way to get the economy going again. But I don't want to be in the dark about the fact that I will receive the continuation of the tax rates. 我审阅了总统与共和党领导人达成的这项协议。我要如实说明，我现在收入颇丰，因此共和党人主张的立场会让我个人受益。但就其本身而言，我不会支持，因为我不认为给我减税是推动经济复苏最有效的方式。不过我也不想讳言，我确实会享受延续下来的税率。
However, the agreement taken as a whole is, I believe, the best bipartisan agreement we can reach to help the largest number of Americans, and to maximize the chances that the economic recovery will accelerate and create more jobs, and to minimize the chances that it will slip back, which is what has happened in other financial collapses. Like, that's what Japan faced, and it's something that we have to avoid in America. 然而，整体来看，我相信这是我们能达成的最佳两党协议——能帮助最多美国人，最大限度提升经济复苏加速、创造更多就业的可能性，并尽可能减小经济再次下滑的风险，而这种情况在其他金融危机中曾发生过。日本就曾面临过这种局面，这是美国必须避免的。
Why do I say that? First of all, because clearly the extension of unemployment, which gives people a percentage of the income they were previously making, will -- that money will be spent and it will bolster the economy for the next couple of years. 我为什么这么说？首先，因为显然失业救济金的延长——它给人们提供此前收入的一定比例——这笔钱会被花掉，并在未来几年支撑经济。
Secondly, the conversion of the Make Work Pay Tax Credit, which the President passed before, which goes to -- went to 95 percent of the American people, converting that into an $120 billion one-year payroll tax relief act is, according to all the economic analyses, the single most effective tax cut you can do to support economic activity. This will actually create a fair number of jobs. I expect it to lower the unemployment rate and keep us going. 其次，将总统此前推出、曾惠及95%美国人的“让工作有回报”税收抵免，改为规模达1200亿美元、为期一年的工资税减免。所有经济分析都表明，在各种减税措施中，这是刺激经济活动最有效的一项。它确实会创造相当数量的就业岗位。我预计这会降低失业率，推动经济继续复苏。
Thirdly, and one thing I haven't seen much about in the reports, this agreement will really help America over the long term, because it continues the credits for manufacturing jobs related to energy coming in to America. And I'll remind you, just in the last two years, there have been 30 high-powered battery factories either opened or presently being built in America, taking us from 2 to 20 percent of the world's share of that. 第三，还有一点报道很少提及：这项协议延续了鼓励能源相关制造业岗位落户美国的税收抵免，因此从长远来看确实会令美国受益。我要提醒大家，仅在过去两年里，美国就有30家高性能电池工厂已经投产或正在建设，使美国在全球这一产业中的份额从2%提高到20%。
And we're going to probably be at 40 percent by 2014. This is a really important thing, bringing manufacturing back to America, because it's a huge multiplier to create new jobs. 到2014年，我们的份额可能会达到40%。让制造业回流美国非常重要，因为这会产生强大的乘数效应，带动新的就业岗位。
So in my opinion, this is a good bill. And I hope that my fellow Democrats will support it. I thank the Republican leaders for agreeing to include things that were important to the President. 因此在我看来，这是一项好法案。我希望民主党同僚们能支持它。我也要感谢共和党领导人同意纳入对总统而言十分重要的内容。
There is never a perfect bipartisan bill in the eyes of a partisan. And we all see this differently. But I really believe this will be a significant net-plus for the country. I also think that in general a lot of people are heaving a sigh of relief that there's finally been some agreement on something. 在党派人士眼中，从来不存在完美的两党法案。我们看待此事各有不同。但我真心相信，这对国家是一笔重大的净收益。我也认为，总的来说，许多人对终于能在某些事情上达成一致而如释重负。
But don't minimize the impact of the unemployment relief for working families, of the payroll tax relief, and of the continuation of the incentives to grow jobs, which will trigger more credit coming out of the banks. 但不要低估失业救济、工资税减免以及延续就业增长激励措施对工薪家庭的作用；这些措施还会促使银行释放更多信贷。
Keep in mind, ultimately the long-term answer here is to get the $2 trillion, which banks now have in cash reserves uncommitted to loans, out there in the economy again, the $1.8 trillion in corporate treasuries not now being invested out there in the economy again. I think this is a net-plus. 请记住，从根本上说，长期答案是要让银行目前持有却未用于放贷的2万亿美元现金储备重新流入经济，让企业金库里现在没有投入使用的1.8万亿美元重新流入经济。我认为这是净收益。
And you know how I feel. I think the people that benefit most should pay most. That's always been my position -- not for class warfare reasons; for reasons of fairness in rebuilding the middle class in America. But we have the distribution of authority we have now in the Congress and what we're going to have in January, and I think this is a much, much better agreement than would be reached were we to wait until January. And I think it will have a much more positive impact on the economy. 大家知道我的立场。我认为受益最多的人应当付出最多。这一直是我的立场——不是为了挑起阶级斗争，而是出于公平，为了重建美国的中产阶级。但鉴于国会目前的权力格局以及一月之后即将形成的格局，我认为这是一份比等到一月后再达成的协议要好得多的协议。我也认为它对经济会有积极得多的影响。
So for whatever it's worth, that's what I think. 所以，不管这番话有多少分量，这就是我的看法。
President Obama: That's worth a lot. 奥巴马总统：这番话很有分量。
Former President Clinton: I would like to say one other thing on another subject, just to be recorded on the record. They don't need my support on this because we have some good Republican support, including the first President Bush. I think this START agreement is very important to the future of our national security. 前总统克林顿：我还想就另一个话题说几句，以便记录在案。他们在这件事上并不需要我的支持，因为我们已获得一些共和党人的有力支持，包括老布什总统。我认为这项《新削减战略武器条约》对我们国家安全的未来至关重要。
And it is not a radical agreement. Boris Yeltsin and I agreed in principle on this same reduction, and there was no way in the wide world he could get it through the Russian Duma that existed at the time in his second term. So we didn't proceed because it couldn't be ratified there. I'm not sure the Senate would have ratified it then, but I think they will not with enough encouragement. 这并不是一项激进的协议。叶利钦和我原则上曾同意进行同等幅度的削减，但他在第二任期面对的俄罗斯国家杜马无论如何都不可能批准。因此我们没有继续推进，因为协议无法在俄罗斯获得批准。我不确定美国参议院当时是否会批准，不过我认为，只要给予足够推动，现在参议院会批准的。
But the cooperation that we will get from the Russians, and the signal that will be sent to the world on nonproliferation, when all these other things are going on which threaten to increase nuclear proliferation, is very important. One of the things you know is that when people fool with these weapons, they're expensive to build, expensive to maintain, and expensive to secure the material that goes into making the weapons. 但在其他种种可能加剧核扩散的事态正在发生之际，我们将从俄罗斯获得的合作，以及这项协议向世界传递的核不扩散信号，都非常重要。大家知道，核武器造价高昂、维护费用高昂，保障制造核武器所需材料的安全同样代价不菲。
This is something that is profoundly important. This ought to be way beyond party. They've worked very hard. They've worked out, in my opinion, the details. And I hope it will be ratified. 这件事意义深远。它应当超越党派。他们已经非常努力地工作。在我看来，他们已经敲定了细节。我希望它能获得批准。
Question: Mr. President. 提问：总统先生。
Former President Clinton: Yes. 前总统克林顿：请讲。
Question: First of all, a lot of Democrats on Capitol Hill say this is a bad deal; that President Obama could have gotten more. What's your message to them? And then if I could also just ask -- well, go ahead. You can answer -- 提问：首先，国会山上很多民主党人说这是一笔糟糕的交易；说奥巴马总统本可以争取到更多。您对他们有什么话要说？另外，如果可以的话，我还想问——嗯，请讲。您可以回答——
Former President Clinton: First, my message is, I don't believe that's true because in January, they will be in the majority. And this would dramatically reduce their incentive to extend unemployment benefits, to support the conversion of the Make Work Pay tax credits President Obama enacted into this payroll tax deduction, which as I said, I read all these economic studies. Every single, unbiased, economic study says the best thing you can do if you're going to take a tax-cut path to grow the economy is to give payroll tax relief. 前总统克林顿：首先，我的话是：我不相信这是真的，因为一月之后他们将成为多数党。这将大大降低他们延长失业救济、支持将奥巴马总统颁布的"工作所得税收抵免"转化为工资税减免的意愿。正如我所说，我读了所有这些经济研究。每一项无偏见的经济学研究都说，如果要在减税路径上刺激经济，最好的做法就是工资税减免。
I just got back from a trip to Asia with my foundation. Hong Kong, super free-market place, had a stimulus. Well, I guess we're not supposed to use that word any more. You know what they did? They gave almost 10 percent of the people -- low-income, working people -- two months free rent in public housing. They gave some money to the seniors. But the most important thing they did was payroll tax relief for a year. 我刚刚和我的基金会一起从亚洲之行回来。香港，一个超级自由市场的地方，也推出了刺激措施。嗯，我猜我们现在不该再用这个词了。你知道他们做了什么吗？他们给近10%的人——低收入工薪阶层——提供了两个月的公屋免租。他们给老人发了一些钱。但他们做的最重要的事是一年期的工资税减免。
This is -- all the people who study this believe it's the number one thing, so I don't believe they can get a better deal by waiting. 这就是——所有研究这个问题的人都相信它是头等大事，所以我不相信他们等下去能拿到更好的协议。
And I think the other thing that nobody is talking about, but I'm telling you it's important, I live out there now, and I do a lot of this energy work, these tax credits have made us competitive again. 还有一件没人谈论、但我要告诉大家非常重要的事：我现在已经离开政坛，也从事大量能源领域的工作。这些税收抵免让美国重新具备了竞争力。
I didn't see a single story that credited Senator Reid's election with the fact that with three weeks before the election, two new plants were announced in Nevada, which has the highest unemployment rate in the state, a thousand people making LED lights, a thousand people making wind turbines for that big wind farm in Texas, 我没有看到一篇报道把里德参议员的连任归因于这样一个事实：就在选举前三周，失业率居全美之首的内华达州宣布将开设两家新工厂，一家将雇用一千人生产发光二极管灯，另一家将雇用一千人生产供应得克萨斯州那座大型风电场的风力涡轮机，
both companies owned by Chinese interests who said in no uncertain terms we're here because you decided to compete with us for the future, and you gave us tax credits so we can pay higher labor costs because we save the transportation costs because of these credits. I don't believe there is a better deal out there. 两家公司都由中方资本持有。他们说得很明确：我们来到这里，是因为你们决定在未来产业中与我们竞争；你们提供了税收抵免，加上就地生产节省的运输成本，使我们能够承担这里更高的劳动力成本。我不相信还能达成更好的协议。
Question: And then as a follow-up, you mentioned the Republican Congress taking office in January. What was your advice to President Obama today about how to deal with the Congress from the opposition party? 提问：作为跟进，您提到了一月即将上任的共和党国会。您今天对奥巴马总统提出了什么建议，关于如何应对来自反对党的国会？
Former President Clinton: I have a general rule which is that whatever he asked me about my advice, and whatever I say should become public only if he decides to make it public. He can say whatever he wants, but -- 前总统克林顿：我有一条总原则——无论他就建议问到我什么，无论我说什么，只有在他决定公开时才应公开。他可以说任何他想说的，但是——
Question: What do you think? 提问：您怎么看？
President Obama: Here's what I'll say, is I've been keeping the First Lady waiting for about half an hour, so I'm going to take off, but -- 奥巴马总统：我只能说，我已经让第一夫人等了大约半小时了，所以我得走了，但是——
Former President Clinton: I don't want to make her mad, please go. 前总统克林顿：可别让她生气，请走吧。
President Obama: You're in good hands, and Gibbs will call last question. 奥巴马总统：有他在这里，你们尽管放心。吉布斯会点最后一位提问者。
Former President Clinton: Yes, help me. Thank you. Yes, go ahead. 前总统克林顿：好，请帮我安排一下。谢谢。请讲。
Question: Mr. President, is there anything else that can be done in your opinion to loosen up the private credit markets that have been so tight? I mean if people can't get their hands on capital, how can they be the entrepreneurs that they want to be? And this is something that the Republicans have fought all along. What's the next step? 提问：总统先生，在您看来，还有什么办法可以松动一直非常紧张的私人信贷市场？我的意思是，如果人们拿不到资金，他们怎么能成为自己想成为的创业者？这件事共和党人一直反对。下一步该怎么办？
Former President Clinton: First of all, let me just run through the numbers again. We're not talking about high-risk stuff. That's what the financial regulation bill tries to stop and charges the federal regulators with -- even if the Wall Street banks get -- we all know they have to be able to have more leverage than the traditional community banks tend to want up in the Dakotas or Arkansas or anyplace else. 前总统克林顿：首先，让我再梳理一下这些数字。我们谈的并不是高风险业务；金融监管法案要制止的正是高风险行为，并责成联邦监管机构加以监管。即使是华尔街银行——我们都知道，它们能够采用的杠杆率也会高于达科他州、阿肯色州或其他地方的传统社区银行通常愿意采用的水平。
But let's start with the community banks. If they loan money conservatively, they can loan $10 for every dollar they have in the bank. If they have $2 trillion uncommitted to loans, even though some of them may have a few mortgage issues unresolved, most of that mortgage debt has been off-loaded to Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac or has vanished into cyber-sphere with those securitized subprime mortgages. I don't like the securities, but they happened. 但让我们从社区银行说起。如果它们采取审慎的放贷方式，银行每持有一美元资本，就可以贷出十美元。如果它们有2万亿美元资金尚未用于放贷，那么即便其中一些银行可能仍有少量抵押贷款问题没有解决，大部分抵押贷款债务也已经转移给房利美或房地美，或者随着那些被证券化的次级抵押贷款消失在金融体系之中。我不喜欢这些证券，但证券化已经发生了。
So what I believe is going on is, first of all, the business community has not come forward as aggressively -- the small business community. And this bill did preserve all those small business incentives that were enacted by the Congress in the previous two years. There are like 16 different measures that give incentives for small businesses to take loans and loan guarantees and that kind of thing. 所以我相信，目前的情况是：首先，企业界——尤其是小企业界——并没有非常积极地站出来。而这项法案确实保留了国会前两年颁布的所有那些小企业激励措施。大约有16项不同的措施，为小企业获得贷款、贷款担保等提供激励。
It appears to me that the community banks, at least, are somewhat uncertain about how the financial reform bill, which I supported, applies to them and what the costs of compliance might be. You remember, the two big things that bill did was to require the federal regulators to monitor every month the big banks that caused the meltdown and to require them to set aside more capital. 在我看来，至少社区银行对金融改革法案（我是支持的）如何适用于自己、合规成本可能有多高，存在一定的不确定。大家记得，该法案做的两件大事是：要求联邦监管机构每月监督那些导致危机的大银行，并要求它们留出更多资本。
And then it set up an orderly bankruptcy mechanism and banned future bailouts. It said -- that bill actually says: If this happens again, the shareholders and the executives have to eat it. 然后，它建立了一套有序破产机制，并禁止未来的救助。它实际上规定：如果再次发生这种情况，股东和高管必须自己承担损失。
But there's a whole lot of other things in credit cards and other matters that deal with it. I think it is really, really important just to do an aggressive, 100 percent information drench. I mean I would go so far as to do it bank by bank by bank by bank so that everybody knows exactly what they have to do, exactly what it costs and how quickly this can all be resolved. 但这项法案还涉及信用卡等许多其他事项。我认为，开展一场积极而全面的信息普及行动至关重要。我甚至主张逐家银行进行说明，让每个人都确切知道自己必须做什么、合规成本是多少，以及所有问题能够多快解决。
And then I think it's important to make sure that all these community banks and the people who might borrow from them understand where the small businesses of America are and where the manufacturers are with the various loan guarantees and credits and deductions that are available under these laws. 然后我认为，重要的是确保所有这些社区银行及其潜在借款人都弄清楚，这些法律提供的各类贷款担保、税收抵免和税前扣除，对美国的小企业和制造商究竟意味着什么。
I still think -- you know, we too often assume that when a law passes, people know it passed, and they know what's in it, and they know how it applies to them. That may not be true in this case because there's been so much activity and so much debate about it that was a debate that occurred in the context of a campaign rather than in the context of, "Let me tell you how this works, come here, let's figure out how to get you a loan." So in my opinion, that's what needs to be done over the next two or three months. 我仍然认为——我们常常想当然地以为，法律一经通过，人们就知道它通过了，知道其中内容，知道如何适用于自己。这次情况可能并非如此，因为围绕它的活动和辩论太多，而那些辩论是在竞选语境下发生的，而不是"让我告诉你这是怎么运作的，过来，让我们想办法给你弄到一笔贷款"这样的语境。所以在我看来，这就是未来两三个月需要做的事。
The money is there to get this country out of this mess. Two trillion dollars in the bank is $20 trillion in loans. Now, there's not that much guaranteed, but there's plenty. 资金是有的，足以让这个国家走出困境。银行里的两万亿美元意味着二十万亿美元的贷款。当然，并非全部都有担保，但绰绰有余。
And I also believe the same thing with big companies. We should analyze the situation of every company that at a minimum has got a $1 billion or more in cash and ask them to be honest with us about what would it take to get you back in the investment business. 我也相信大公司也是同样情况。我们应该分析每家现金至少在10亿美元以上的公司的状况，请他们坦诚地告诉我们：要让你重新开始投资，需要什么条件。
These companies clearly have a preference for reinvesting in America, or they'd have put this money somewhere else already. They have got -- it's an amazing thing, $1.8 trillion in corporate treasuries, 6.2 percent of their capitalized value. It's been since 1964 that they had those kind of cash balances relative to their value. 这些公司显然更倾向于在美国再投资，否则它们早就把钱投到别处了。令人惊奇的是，企业金库里有1.8万亿美元，占其市值的6.2%。自1964年以来，它们从未有过相对于自身价值如此之高的现金余额。
So those are the things that I think we have to do now, so I can't answer your question, except the bankers I talked to in Arkansas, in small places that I visit around where I live in New York, they all say, we know we need to ramp up the activity. We got to get the green light about how we're going to comply with these laws, and then we'll go. 所以，这些就是我认为我们现在必须做的事。我无法直接回答你的问题，只能告诉你，我在阿肯色州以及纽约住处附近的小城镇接触过的银行家都说：我们知道必须加快业务；只要获得关于如何遵守这些法律的明确指引，我们就会行动起来。
And you might be able to actually use your program to do it. You might be able to bring some community bankers on, bring some regulars on, work through this stuff for people. I just think they don't know yet. 也许你们真可以利用自己的节目来做这件事，请一些社区银行家和监管人员上节目，为大家把这些问题梳理清楚。我只是觉得，他们现在还不了解具体情况。
Yes. 请讲。
Question: Some of your fellow Democrats are saying that the President just didn't go in and fight hard enough for his core principles; that he caved in. Politically, some say that he should be a one-term President. Has he damaged not only his own political path, but has he let the party down? 提问：您的一些民主党同僚说，总统根本没有为自己的核心原则奋力争取；说他妥协退让了。政治上，有人说他应当只做一任总统。他是否不仅损害了自己的政治前途，也让民主党失望了？
Former President Clinton: I don't believe so. I think -- I just respectfully disagree about that. I think that a lot of -- look, a lot of them are hurting now. And I get it. And you know I did 133 events for them. I believe the Congress in the last two years did a far better job than the American people thought they did, at least the American people that voted in the midterms. 前总统克林顿：我不这么认为。我只是对此持尊重的不同意见。听着，他们当中很多人现在很受打击，我理解这一点。你们知道，我为他们参加了133场竞选活动。我相信，过去两年国会的表现远比美国人民所认为的好——至少远比参加中期选举投票的美国人所认为的好。
And I went to extraordinary efforts to try to explain what I thought had been done in the ways that I thought were most favorable to them. But we had an election. The results are what they are. The numbers will only get worse in January in terms of negotiating. 我也曾竭尽全力，试图以我认为对他们最有利的方式解释已取得的成就。但选举已经举行。结果就是如此。一月之后，谈判地位只会更糟。
And the President -- look, if we had 5 percent growth and unemployment was dropping like a rock, maybe you could have a so-called Mexican standoff, and you could say, it will be you, not me, the voters will hold responsible for raising taxes on middle-class people if they all go down next year. That is not the circumstance we face. 至于总统——听着，如果我们的经济增长率达到5%，失业率直线下降，也许你可以来一场所谓的“墨西哥式对峙”，然后说：如果明年这些减税措施全部失效，选民会认为该为中产阶级加税负责的是你们，而不是我。但我们面对的并不是这种局面。
The United States has suffered a severe financial collapse. These things take longer to get over than normal recessions. We must first make sure we keep getting over it. We don't want to slip back down as Japan did. 美国经历了一场严重的金融崩溃。这种事比正常衰退需要更长时间才能恢复。我们必须首先确保持续走出困境。我们不想像日本那样再度滑落。
And in order to make it happen over the long run, that's why the question I was just asked is so good, is we have to go beyond direct investments, whether they're stimulus projects or tax cuts, to private growth. But to get there, we have to achieve a higher level of growth that triggers a confidence. So I personally believe this is a good deal and the best he could have gotten under the circumstances. I just disagree. I understand why -- people have a right to disagree with him. But I disagree. 要让复苏在长期内得以实现，这正是刚才那个问题问得好的原因：我们必须超越直接投资——无论是刺激项目还是减税——转向私人增长。但要达到那一步，我们必须先实现能激发信心的更高增长水平。所以我个人相信，这是一笔好交易，也是他在当前形势下能拿到的最好结果。我只是不同意他们的看法。我理解为什么——人们有权与他意见相左。但我不同意。
Yes, sir. 请讲，先生。
Question: Mr. President, you've made a number of very effective calls for the health care plan last year. Have you been asked to make any calls to Democratic members on the tax deal? And, secondly, there are a lot of comparisons being made between the '94 election and the 2010 election. Do you think those are analogous? Are they similar situations? 提问：总统先生，去年您曾为医改方案打过许多卓有成效的游说电话。现在有没有人请您就这项税收协议致电民主党议员？其次，很多人把1994年选举与2010年选举相提并论。您认为二者可以类比吗？情况相似吗？
Former President Clinton: It's like all these things -- all of you will be under enormous pressure to develop a storyline. And there are some parallels, and some that are different. And you know, I'm -- I'll let you do that. I'm out of politics now, except to say that I care about my country and I want to get this economy going again. 前总统克林顿：这件事就像所有这些事一样——你们所有人都会承受巨大压力去构建一种叙事。这其中有一些相似之处，也有一些不同之处。你们知道，我——我把这留给你们去做。我已经退出政坛了，除了要说我关心我的国家、希望经济重新好转之外。
And I believe that it is necessary for these parties to work together. And I think, for example, the storyline is how well we work with the Republicans and all that. But we've played political kabuki for a year, had two government shutdowns. We can't afford that now. The only reason we could do that is if the deficit was already coming down in a time when interest rates were the problem, and the economy was coming out. People just didn't feel it yet in '94. 但我相信两党必须合作。比如，人们可能会把1994年后的故事讲成我们与共和党合作得多么顺利等等；可实际上，我们上演了一年的政治作秀，还经历了两次政府关门。现在我们承受不起这种局面。当时之所以还能承受，是因为赤字已经下降，利率才是主要问题，而且经济正在复苏，只是1994年时人们还没有感受到。
We can't afford that. We have got to pull together. And both sides are going to have to eat some things they don't like, because we cannot afford to have the kind of impasse that we had last time over a long period of time. We don't want to slip back into a recession. We got to keep this thing going and accelerate its pace. I think this is the best available option. 我们现在承受不起。我们必须团结一致。双方都得咽下一些自己不喜欢的东西，因为我们承担不起上回那种长期僵局。我们不想重新陷入衰退。我们必须让局势继续向前并加快步伐。我认为这是当前可用的最佳选项。
Mark. 马克。
Question: -- any calls -- 提问：——有没有打电话——
Question: Mr. President -- 提问：总统先生——
Former President Clinton: Oh, I'm sorry, George, I have not. But in fairness, as soon as the election was over, I took my foundation trip to Asia. Then I came back -- I just got back from the West Coast, doing my annual trip out there. There are people that support the work I do and my foundation. I flew overnight to get here today. And I have to leave again tonight. If I were asked to, I would be happy to talk to anyone. But I have not been asked. 前总统克林顿：哦，对不起，乔治，我没有。但公平地说，选举一结束，我就去了亚洲为基金会出差。然后我回来了——刚从西海岸回来，那是我每年一次的行程。那里有支持我和我基金会工作的人。我连夜飞来参加今天的活动。我今晚还得再走。如果有人请我，我会很乐意与任何人交谈。但还没有人请我。
But, in fairness, the President didn't have a chance to. He asked me to come down today, because he knew I was going to -- Hillary and I were appearing before the Brookings Saban Forum on the Middle East tonight. 但公平地说，总统也没有机会。他今天请我下来，是因为他知道——希拉里和我今晚要出席布鲁金斯学会萨班中东论坛。
Yes, Mark. 请讲，马克。
Question: Mr. President, I get the feeling that you're happier to be here commenting and giving advice than governing. 提问：总统先生，我有一种感觉，您在这里发表评论、提供建议，比执政更开心。
Former President Clinton: Oh, I had quite a good time governing. I am happy to be here, I suppose, when the bullets that are fired are unlikely to hit me, unless they're just ricocheting. No, I'm glad to be here because I think the President made a good decision and because I want my country to do well. And after the '94 election, I said the American people, in their infinite wisdom, have put us both in the same boat. So we're going to either row or sink. And I want us to row. 前总统克林顿：哦，我执政的时候可是相当开心的。我想我之所以乐意到这里来，大概是因为现在射来的子弹不太可能击中我，除非发生跳弹。不，我乐意来，是因为我认为总统作出了正确的决定，也因为我希望自己的国家发展得好。1994年选举之后，我曾说：美国人民以其无穷的智慧，把我们双方放进了同一条船。所以我们要么一起划桨，要么一起沉没。我希望我们一起划桨。
Question: Can you give us a Haiti update? 提问：能向我们通报一下海地的情况吗？
Former President Clinton: What? 前总统克林顿：什么？
Question: Can you give us a Haiti update? I know you were there. 提问：能向我们通报一下海地的情况吗？我知道您去过那里。
Former President Clinton: Yes. I had a long talk with the Prime Minister today. And he, first of all, has done I think a remarkable job of being a loyal prime minister, but not being involved in the political imbroglio that's going on, except to try to keep calm. 前总统克林顿：可以。今天我与总理进行了长时间交谈。首先，我认为他作为一位恪尽职守的总理表现得相当出色，没有卷入当前的政治纷争，只专注于努力维持局势平静。
There was a decision made by the electoral council to review the vote in its entirety and to ask some outside observers to come in who are not only credible but knowledgeable. And they will announce exactly how they propose to do that. Today was a pretty calm day. And they expect the weekend to be pretty calm. 选举委员会已经决定全面复核投票结果，并邀请一些既有公信力、又熟悉相关情况的外部观察员参与。他们将公布具体的复核方案。今天局势相当平静，预计周末也会保持平静。
We are going to have our commission meeting next week. We may move it to the Dominican Republic. But I think the best thing that we can do for the people of Haiti is to prove that Haitians on the commission, and the donors, are still committed to the long-term reconstruction process, whoever gets elected president. 我们下周将举行委员会会议。我们可能会移到多米尼加共和国举行。但我认为，我们现在能为海地人民做的最好的事，就是证明委员会中的海地成员和捐助方仍致力于长期重建进程，无论谁当选总统。
The best thing they can do is -- everyone understands they had to carry out this election under enormously difficult circumstances. Even getting the ID cards to everybody, as you know, proved difficult, because they were in those tented areas. 他们能做的最好的事是——大家都理解，他们不得不在极其艰难的条件下举行这次选举。正如大家所知，甚至把身份证件发到每个人手中都十分困难，因为人们分散居住在那些帐篷区里。
But what I can say is it was calmer today. It appears they are going to try to have a recount procedure, which they hope will acquire more support from across the political spectrum. And, meanwhile, we want the commission to keep working. 但我能说的是，今天局势较为平静。看起来他们打算尝试重新计票程序，希望这能获得跨政治光谱的更多支持。同时，我们希望委员会继续工作。
The World Bank just released about $70 billion of the $90 billion in projects we approved four months ago. So that will go in. We'll be hiring more people immediately on those projects. And we're going to approve a lot more projects on the 14th. And that's my focus now. 世界银行刚刚拨付了四个月前我们批准的900亿美元项目中的约700亿美元。这笔资金将会到位。我们将立即在这些项目上雇用更多人。我们还会在14日批准更多项目。这就是我目前的重点。
Yes. 请讲。
Question: Mr. President, I have to ask, do you think your appearance here today will help sway votes where they're needed the most right now, among House Democrats? 提问：总统先生，我必须问，您认为您今天的亮相会有助于在最需要的关键时刻——即众议院民主党人当中——争取到选票吗？
Former President Clinton: I have no idea. 前总统克林顿：我不知道。
Question: The reason I ask you that is because a lot of them are sort of antsy. And I know you never used the term back in your first term, but they're antsy about the precedent of triangulation. They're still smarting over that. And your appearance here today might not necessarily push them in the direction that the President wants them to be pushed. 提问：我问这个是因为他们当中很多人有些焦躁不安。我知道您在第一任期内从未用过那个词，但他们对于"三角战略"的先例感到不安。他们对此仍耿耿于怀。您今天的亮相未必会把他们推向总统希望的方向。
Former President Clinton: That's right, it may not. But I would like to -- you know, I told President Obama, and I'll tell you, you ought to go back and read a lecture that Franklin Roosevelt gave in 1926 before he was the Vice Presidential nominee, before he came down with polio, to his old alma mater [inaudible], in which he discussed the dilemma of the progressive movement in American politics. 前总统克林顿：没错，可能不会。但我想——你们知道，我告诉过奥巴马总统，我也告诉你们，你们应该回去读一读富兰克林·罗斯福在1926年——在他成为副总统候选人之前、在他患上小儿麻痹症之前——在他的母校[听不清]发表的一篇演讲，他在其中讨论了美国政治中进步主义运动面临的困境。
I have an enormous amount of respect for the Democrats in the House. And I've already told you I regret that so many of them lost. I think some of our best people lost. And I get where they're coming from. 我对众议院的民主党人怀有极大的敬意。我已经说过，我很遗憾他们当中那么多人落选。我认为我们一些最优秀的人落选了。我理解他们的心情。
I can only tell you that my economic analysis is that given all the alternatives that I can imagine actually becoming law, this is the best economic result for America. And I think it is enormous relief for America to think that both parties might vote for something, anything that they could both agree on. And there is no way you can have a compromise without having something in the bill that you don't like. 我只能告诉你们，从经济分析的角度看，在我所能想象的所有真正可能成为法律的替代方案中，这是对美国最好的经济结果。我也认为，让两党可能共同投票支持某项——任何一项他们都能接受的方案，对美国来说是巨大的宽慰。而任何妥协都不可避免地要在法案中包含一些你不喜欢的内容。
So I don't know if I can influence anybody. Heck, I couldn't -- you know, I'd go some places and the people I campaigned for won. In some places, the people I campaigned for lost. I don't know. All I can tell you is what I think. 所以我不知道自己能否影响任何人。嘿，我都不能——你们知道，我去过一些地方，我支持的人赢了；也有一些地方，我支持的人输了。我不知道。我能告诉你们的只是我的看法。
Question: Considering your credibility on the deficit, what do you think about concerns about the short-term deficit and the long-term deficit, and where our country is going? 提问：鉴于您在赤字问题上的公信力，您如何看待对短期赤字和长期赤字以及我国发展方向的担忧？
Former President Clinton: I'm happy to address that because I don't think that -- I don't think I did a good enough job in this election season, obviously, and I'm not sure we did. 前总统克林顿：我很乐意谈这个问题，因为我不认为——我不认为自己在这次选举季做得够好，显然，我也不确定我们整体是否做得够好。
The difference between now and when I became President, when we immediately went after the deficit, is quite simple. When I became President, it was after 12 years in which the accumulative debt of the country had risen from $1 to $4 trillion. It was the first period in American history when we had ever run structural deficits of any size. 现在与我担任总统时立即着手解决赤字的情况截然不同，原因很简单。我担任总统时，之前12年国家累计债务从1万亿美元升至4万亿美元。那是美国历史上首次出现如此规模的结构性赤字。
And so we were having to pay too much for money. It was costing us a lot to borrow money in the public sector, taking I think it was 14 cents of every dollar on the debt at the time. And it was crowding out the opportunity of the private sector to borrow money, and raising their cost. And that's sparked the recession that we had in the early '90s. 所以我们当时的融资成本过高。公共部门借款代价很大，我记得当时每一美元财政支出中约有14美分用于偿付债务。这挤压了私人部门的融资空间，也抬高了它们的融资成本，并由此引发了20世纪90年代初的经济衰退。
What happened this time was totally different. This time there was a collapse of a financial system, which took interest rates to zero. Now, I know there's a lot of alarm now. People say, oh, the interest rates went up on bond and in debt in the last couple of days. And they said, oh, is it because of the increase in the -- increasing the deficit in the short term? Is it because of the economy growing? That doesn't bother me. We have to get out of deflation. The biggest problem we have now is deflation. 这次的情况完全不同。这次是金融体系崩溃，把利率压到了零。我知道现在有很多担忧。人们说，哦，过去几天债券和债务的利率上升了。他们说，哦，是不是因为短期内赤字在增加？是不是因为经济在增长？这并不让我担心。我们必须走出通缩。我们当前最大的问题是通缩。
So, look, I'm a Depression-era kid. I don't like deficits ever, really. We had four surpluses when I was President. That's what I like. I like balanced budgets and surpluses; when you have growth. 所以，听着，我是大萧条时代长大的孩子。我从来都不喜欢赤字。我担任总统时有四年实现盈余。那才是我喜欢的。我喜欢平衡预算和盈余；那是在增长的情况下。
But if I were in office now, I would have done what the President has done. You have to first put the brakes on a contracting economy. And then you have to somehow hold it together until growth resumes. When growth resumes, you have to have interest rates higher than zero. 但如果我现在在任，我也会做总统所做的事。你必须首先为收缩的经济踩下刹车。然后你必须设法维持住局面，直到增长恢复。增长恢复时，利率必须高于零。
So you should actually -- now, if they get too high, you'll be alarmed. But you should be encouraged that interest rates are beginning to creep up again. It's the sign of a healthy economy, and the idea that there would be competition for money. 所以你其实应该——当然，如果利率升得过高，就应当警惕。但利率重新开始缓慢上升也应令人鼓舞，因为这是经济恢复健康的迹象，意味着市场又开始产生资金需求。
I do believe that we'll have to take aggressive and disciplined action to eliminate the structural deficit again. And I think it was a mistake to go back to structural deficits. I think if America were out of debt on a normal basis, and we didn't have to borrow money from our major trading partners, we would have more economic freedom and economic security. So I want to see what comes out of this, but I expect to support some very vigorous actions to eliminate the deficit and get us back to balance. 我确实认为，我们将不得不采取积极而有纪律的行动，再次消除结构性赤字。我认为重新回到结构性赤字是错误的。我认为，如果美国在正常情况下没有债务、不必向主要贸易伙伴借钱，我们就会拥有更多的经济自由和经济安全。所以我想看看结果如何，但我预计会支持一些非常有力的行动，以消除赤字、恢复平衡。
Yes, one more. I've got to get out of here. Go ahead. 好，最后一个。我得走了。请讲。
Question: Thank you, Mr. President. Beyond this pending tax deal, there are enormous issues of importance that are unfinished, from education to energy, the deficit. And this is still a very dividing country. Do you think the American people want a President to compromise with the opposing party? And is that a message that you think Democrats are going to have to accept? 提问：谢谢您，总统先生。除了这项待定的税收协议之外，还有许多重要的未决问题，从教育到能源再到赤字。而且这个国家仍然非常分裂。您认为美国人民希望总统与反对党妥协吗？这是您认为民主党人必须接受的信息吗？
Former President Clinton: Yes, but I also believe that it's a message Republicans are going to have to accept. Keep in mind that many of the -- the really interesting thing was -- is that a lot of the hardcore conservatives think the Republicans gave too much. Read Charles Krauthammer's column in the Post today. 前总统克林顿：是的，但我也认为这是共和党人必须接受的信息。请记住，许多——真正有趣的事情是——许多强硬派保守派认为共和党人让步太多。读一读今天《华盛顿邮报》上查尔斯·克劳特哈默的专栏吧。
He's a brilliant man, and he pointed out that they got the divisive tax cuts, but most of them were targeted to middle-class working people -- that's what the payroll tax cut is -- that the unemployment benefits were extended, which some of them did not want to do, and that the American people, by two to one, support them both. 他是个才华横溢的人，他指出：共和党人得到了那些有争议的减税，但其中大部分是针对中产工薪阶层的——工资税减免就是如此——失业救济得到了延长，而一些共和党人本来不愿意延长，且美国人民以二比一的比例支持这两者。
So there are some conservatives who don't believe in the economic theory I just advanced to you; who believe that the President and Democrats got more out of this than the Republicans did. So I think that's healthy, too, because everybody has got to give a little. 所以也有一些保守派不相信我刚才向你们阐述的经济理论；他们认为总统和民主党人从这项协议中得到的比共和党人多。所以我认为这也是健康的，因为每个人都得让一点。
Yes, I think the one thing that always happens when you have divided government is that people no longer see principled compromise as weakness. This system was set up to promote principled compromise. It is an ethical thing to do. In a democracy where no one is a dictator, we would all be at each other's throats all the time, and we would be in a state of constant paralysis if once power is divided, there is no compromise. 是的，我认为在分立政府下总会发生的一件事是：人们不再把有原则的妥协视为软弱。这个制度就是为了促成有原则的妥协而设立的。这是一种合乎伦理的行为。在一个没有人是独裁者的民主制度下，如果一旦权力分立就没有妥协，我们就会一直互相掐架，陷入持续瘫痪的状态。
Question: What's the political fight worth having? What would you tell Democrats the political fight worth having is right now? 提问：值得进行政治斗争的是什么？您会告诉民主党人，眼下值得进行的政治斗争是什么？
Former President Clinton: Well, I think it's worth fighting against the repeal of the health care law. I would be in favor -- and I can give you four or five things off the top of my head I think should be done to improve it. 前总统克林顿：嗯，我认为值得为阻止废除医疗改革法而斗争。我赞成——我可以随口说出四五项我认为应当采取的改进措施。
I think it's worth a ferocious fight to avoid repeal of the student loan reform, which I believe is the best chance we've got to take America back to number one from number nine in the percent of adults in the world with four-year college degrees. 我认为值得竭尽全力阻止废除学生贷款改革，因为我相信，这是让美国拥有四年制大学学历的成年人比例从世界第九重返第一的最佳机会。
I think it's worth fighting against repeal of the financial reform and the assurance it gives us that we won't have another meltdown, and if we do, there won't be another bailout. 我认为值得为阻止废除金融改革法而斗争，因为这项法律保障我们不会再次发生金融崩溃，即使再度发生，也不会再动用政府资金救助。
I think there are a lot of fights worth having, and I presume the Republicans want to fight those, too, since they ran on that. And they'll be able to have these differences. But this holds the promise that after the fights are over, we'll be able to find principled compromises on those areas, as well. And to me that's worth doing. 我认为有许多值得进行的斗争，我推测共和党人也会愿意进行这些斗争，因为他们正是以此竞选的。他们会有这些分歧。但这带来了一种希望：在斗争结束之后，我们也能在这些领域找到有原则的妥协。在我看来这值得去做。
But first, the economy first. We can't go back into a recession. We have to keep crawling out of this mess we're in. And this is a good first step, both on the substantive merits and on the psychological relief it gives to the American people in general, and the small business people and community bankers and others who can start doing things that will help get better in particular. 但首先，经济必须优先。我们不能重新陷入衰退，必须继续从当前的困境中爬出来。这是良好的第一步：它既有实质性益处，也能在心理上让美国民众普遍松一口气，尤其能让小企业主、社区银行家以及其他有能力着手推动形势好转的人增强信心。
Thank you. 谢谢。