Anderson Cooper: Good evening from George Mason University here in Fairfax, Virginia. We are here tonight to talk about one of the most divisive issues in America today -- guns. Their protection is enshrined in the Constitution, in the Second Amendment, and gun ownership is an integral part of American history and culture. 安德森·库珀：晚上好，这里是弗吉尼亚州费尔法克斯的乔治梅森大学。今晚我们要探讨的是当今美国最具分歧的议题之一——枪支。枪支的受保护地位被写入宪法第二修正案，持枪权也是美国历史和文化不可分割的一部分。
There are some 30,000 gun deaths in America each year. Two-thirds of them are suicides; one-third of them are homicides. So the question we want to confront tonight is how you find a balance between protecting the rights of American citizens who want to own guns, but preventing guns from getting into the hands of people who shouldn’t have them. 美国每年约有三万人死于枪支。其中三分之二是自杀，三分之一是他杀。因此，今晚我们要面对的问题是：如何在保护希望拥有枪支的美国公民权利的同时，防止枪支落入不该拥有它们的人手中。
We brought together people here tonight who represent really all sides of the issue -- gun owners, gun sellers, people who have survived shootings or lost loved ones. Some here believe that having more guns makes us all safer, and believe the right to bear arms defines us, preserves us from tyranny and cannot be compromised in any way. Others here tonight believe just as passionately that more needs to be done to limit the sale of firearms. And we respect all of their views, and we want to hear from as many as we can tonight in the hour ahead. 今晚我们请到了代表这一议题各方立场的人士——持枪者、枪支销售商、枪击事件幸存者以及失去亲人的家属。在座有些人认为更多的枪支让我们更安全，认为持有武器的权利定义了我们、保护我们免受暴政，并且绝不能以任何方式妥协。今晚在座的其他人也同样坚信，需要采取更多措施来限制枪支销售。我们尊重所有这些观点，也希望在接下来的一小时里尽可能多地听取大家的意见。
One voice you will not hear from tonight is the National Rifle Association. They’re the nation’s largest, most influential and powerful gun rights group. We invited them to be here -- I think their office is just a couple miles away. They declined to take part. Some of their members are here tonight, though. We're very thankful for that. And so are representatives from the National Firearms Retailers Association. 今晚你们不会听到的一个声音来自全国步枪协会。他们是美国最大、最具影响力和权势的持枪权组织。我们邀请了他们——我想他们的办公室就在几英里之外。但他们拒绝参加。不过，他们的一些成员今晚来了，我们对此非常感激。全国枪支零售商协会的代表也在场。
This town hall is not something the White House dreamed up or that the White House organized. CNN approached the White House shortly after the San Bernardino terror attack with this idea. And we're pleased that they agreed to participate and pleased to welcome tonight the President of the United States, Barack Obama. 这次市民大会不是白宫策划的，也不是白宫组织的。圣贝纳迪诺恐怖袭击发生后不久，CNN向白宫提出了这个想法。我们很高兴他们同意参与，也很高兴今晚欢迎美国总统巴拉克·奥巴马的到来。
President Obama: Thank you, everybody. Thank you. 奥巴马总统：谢谢大家。谢谢。
Anderson Cooper: Hello, Mr. President. Welcome. 安德森·库珀：您好，总统先生。欢迎您。
President Obama: Great to see you. 奥巴马总统：很高兴见到你。
Anderson Cooper: Good to see you. Let me start. Have you ever owned a gun? 安德森·库珀：很高兴见到您。让我开始提问吧。您曾经拥有过枪支吗？
President Obama: I have never owned a gun. Now, up at Camp David, we've got some skeet shooting, so on a fairly regular basis, we get a 12-gauge and -- I'm not making any claims about my marksmanship. 奥巴马总统：我从未拥有过枪支。不过，在戴维营我们有飞碟射击，所以我会比较定期地使用12口径霰弹枪——我可不是在吹嘘我的枪法。
Anderson Cooper: Before you were President, did you ever feel a desire to get a gun, feel the need to get a gun? 安德森·库珀：在您成为总统之前，您有没有过想要一把枪的念头，觉得需要一把枪？
President Obama: I grew up mostly in Hawaii, and other than hunting for wild pig -- which they do once in a while -- there’s not the popularity of hunting and sportsmanship with guns as much as there are in other parts of the country. 奥巴马总统：我主要在夏威夷长大，除了偶尔打野猪之外——那里的人确实偶尔会去打野猪——狩猎和射击运动在那里并不像在美国其他地区那样普及。
Anderson Cooper: I mean, I ask the question because there’s a lot of people out there who don't trust you, obviously, on the issue of guns. You keep saying you don't want to take away everybody’s guns. But there’s a lot of people out there tonight watching who don't believe you. There are a lot of people in this room who, frankly, don't believe you. And it's not just that you don't really have personal experience having owned a gun, but that things you’ve said: Support for Australia’s tough anti-gun policies. They banned semi-automatic assault rifles. They banned even shotguns in Australia. 安德森·库珀：我问这个问题是因为，显然有很多人在枪支问题上不信任您。您一直说您不想拿走所有人的枪，但今晚有很多观看节目的人不相信您。说实话，这个房间里也有很多人不相信
You’ve praised their policies over and over. 您。这不仅仅是因为您没有个人持枪经验，还因为您说过的话：您支持澳大利亚严厉的禁枪政策。他们禁止了半自动突击步枪，甚至在澳大利亚连霰弹枪都被禁止了。您一再赞扬他们的政策。
Back in 2008, you said -- you talked about “bitter Americans clinging to their guns.” Even now, these executive actions have caused a lot of concern among a lot of people. What can you say to somebody tonight to convince them that you don't want to take away everybody’s guns and you're not coming for their guns? 早在2008年，您就说过——您谈到"痛苦的美国人紧抓着他们的枪"。即使是现在，这些行政措施也在很多人中引起了很大的担忧。今晚您能对那些人说些什么，让他们相信您不想拿走所有人的枪，您不是来收缴他们的枪的？
President Obama: Well, first of all, Anderson, I think it's useful to keep in mind I've been now President for over seven years and gun sales don't seem to have suffered during that time. 奥巴马总统：嗯，首先，安德森，我觉得有必要记住，我担任总统已经七年多了，枪支销量在这段时间里似乎并没有受到影响。
Anderson Cooper: If anything, actually -- 安德森·库珀：要说有什么变化的话，实际上——
President Obama: They’ve gone up. I've been very good for gun manufacturers. More importantly -- I'll tell you a story that I think indicates how I see the issue. Back in 2007-2008, when I was campaigning, I’d leave Chicago, a city which is wonderful, I couldn't be prouder of my city, but where every week there’s a story about a young person getting shot. Some are gang members and it's turf battles. Sometimes it's innocent victims. 奥巴马总统：枪支销量上升了。我对枪支制造商来说一直是个好消息。更重要的是——我给你们讲一个故事，我认为这个故事能说明我如何看待这个问题。在2007到2008年竞选期间，我会离开芝加哥，那是一座很棒的城市，我为我的城市感到无比自豪，但在那里每周都有年轻人被枪击的新闻。有些是帮派成员，是地盘争斗。有时候受害者是无辜的。
Anderson Cooper: Fifty-five people have been shot in Chicago in the last seven days. 安德森·库珀：过去七天里芝加哥就有55人被枪击。
President Obama: Sometimes it's happened just a few blocks from my house, and I live in a reasonably good neighborhood on the South Side of Chicago. So that's one image -- talking to families who’ve gone through the pain of losing somebody because of violence in Chicago -- gun violence. 奥巴马总统：有时候枪击就发生在离我家几个街区的地方，我住在芝加哥南区一个还算不错的社区。所以这是一个画面——与那些在芝加哥因暴力——枪支暴力——而失去亲人的家庭交谈。
Michelle and I are then campaigning out in Iowa, and we're going to farms and we're going to counties. And at one point, Michelle turned to me and she said, you know, if I was living in a farmhouse, where the sheriff’s department is pretty far away, and somebody can just turn off the highway and come up to the farm, I'd want to have a shotgun or a rifle to make sure that I was protected and my family was protected. And she was absolutely right. 米歇尔和我当时在爱荷华州竞选，我们去农场，去各个县。有一次，米歇尔转过身对我说，你知道吗，如果我住在农舍里，治安官办公室离得很远，有人可以直接从高速公路开上来，我会想要一把霰弹枪或步枪，以确保我自己和家人的安全。她是完全正确的。
And so part of the reason I think that this ends up being such a difficult issue is because people occupy different realities. There are a whole bunch of law-abiding citizens who have grown up hunting with their dad, or going to the shooting range, and are responsible gun owners. And then there’s the reality that there are neighborhoods around the country where it is easier for a 12 or 13-year-old to purchase a gun -- and cheaper -- than it is for them to get a book. 所以我认为这个问题之所以变得如此困难，部分原因是人们生活在不同的现实中。有很多守法的公民从小和父亲一起打猎，或者去射击场，他们是负责任的枪支拥有者。但也有另一种现实：在全国各地的一些社区，一个12或13岁的孩子买枪比买一本书更容易，也更便宜。
Anderson Cooper: But what you're proposing, what you proposed this week, the executive actions, the other things, are they really going to be effective? And I ask this because the vast majority of felons out there -- I mean, we can all agree criminals should not get guns; we want to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. The vast majority of criminals get their guns from -- either illegally or from family or friends. So background checks is not something that's going to affect them, is it? 安德森·库珀：但是您提出的方案，您本周提出的行政措施以及其他措施，它们真的会有效吗？我这样问是因为绝大多数重罪犯——我的意思是，我们都同意罪犯不应该得到枪支；我们想防止枪支落入罪犯手中。绝大多数罪犯获取枪支的途径——要么是非法渠道，要么是从家人或朋友那里。所以背景调查对他们不会有影响，不是吗？
President Obama: Well, but that's not exactly accurate. Look, first of all, it's important for everybody to understand what I've proposed and what I haven't proposed. What I've said consistently throughout my presidency is I respect the Second Amendment; I respect the right to bear arms; I respect people who want a gun for self-protection, for hunting, for sportsmanship. But all of us can agree that it makes sense to do everything we can to keep guns out of the hands of people who would try to do others harm, or to do themselves harm. 奥巴马总统：嗯，但这不完全准确。听着，首先，重要的是让每个人都明白我提出了什么，没有提出什么。我在整个总统任期内一直说的是，我尊重第二修正案；我尊重持有武器的权利；我尊重那些想要枪支用于自卫、狩猎和运动的人。但我们所有人都能同意，尽一切努力防止枪支落入那些会伤害他人或伤害自己的人手中是有意义的。
Because every year we're losing 30,000 people to gun violence. Two-thirds of those are actually suicides. Hundreds of kids under the age of 18 are being shot or shooting themselves, often by accident -- many of them under the age of five. And so if we can combine gun safety with sensible background checks and some other steps, we're not going to eliminate gun violence, but we will lessen it. And if we take that number from 30,000 down to, let’s say, 28,000, that's 2,000 families who don't have to go through what the families at Newtown or San Bernardino or Charleston went through. 因为每年有三万人死于枪支暴力。其中三分之二实际上是自杀。数百名18岁以下的儿童被枪击或自己开枪，往往是意外——其中许多还不到五岁。所以，如果我们能将枪支安全与合理的背景调查以及其他一些措施结合起来，我们不会消除枪支暴力，但我们会减少它。如果我们能把这个数字从三万降到，比如说，两万八千，那就有两千个家庭不必经历纽敦、圣贝纳迪诺或查尔斯顿的家庭所经历的痛苦。
And so what we've proposed is that if you have a background check system that has a bunch of big loopholes, which is why a lot of criminals and people who shouldn’t have guns are able to get guns -- 所以我们提出的是，如果你的背景调查系统有很多大漏洞，这就是为什么很多罪犯和不该有枪的人能够得到枪支——
Question: But they’re not buying them at gun shows -- only 1 percent of criminals are buying them at gun shows. 提问者：但他们不是在枪展上买的——只有百分之一的罪犯在枪展上购买枪支。
President Obama: No, but this is what happens. Let’s go back to the city of Chicago that has strong gun control laws. And oftentimes the NRA will point to that as an example and say, see, these things don’t work. Well, the problem is, is that about 30, 40 percent of those guns are coming from Indiana, across the border, where there are much laxer laws. And so folks will go to a gun show and purchase a whole bunch of firearms, put them in a van, drive up into Mike Pfleger’s neighborhood on the South Side of Chicago, where his parish is, open up the trunk, and those things are for sale. 奥巴马总统：不，但实际情况是这样的。让我们回到芝加哥，那个有严格枪支管制法律的城市。全国步枪协会经常拿它当例子说，看，这些措施根本没用。问题是，那些枪中大约有百分之三四十来自印第安纳州，越过州界而来，那里的法律要宽松得多。所以人们会去枪展，买一大堆枪支，装在厢式货车里，开到芝加哥南区迈克·普弗莱格神父的社区，也就是他的教区所在地，打开后备箱，那些枪就开始出售了。
Now, technically, you could say those folks bought them illegally, but it was facilitated by the fact that what used to be a small exception that said collectors and hobbyists don’t need to go through a background check has become this massive industry where people who are doing business are, in fact, saying that they’re not in the business of selling guns, but are. 从技术上讲，你可以说那些人是非法购买的，但这之所以成为可能，是因为过去那个说收藏家和爱好者不需要背景调查的小小例外，已经演变成了一个庞大的产业，那些实际上在做枪支生意的人却说自己不是在做枪支买卖。
And all we’re saying here is, is that we want to put everybody on notice that the definition of doing business -- which means you have to register, and it means you have to run a background check -- is if you are making a profit and repeatedly selling guns, then you should have to follow the same rules as every other gun dealer. And what that means -- 我们在这里想说的是，我们想让所有人都知道，"做生意"的定义——这意味着你必须注册，必须进行背景调查——就是如果你在盈利并反复销售枪支，那么你就应该遵守与其他所有枪支经销商相同的规则。这意味着——
Anderson Cooper: There are a lot of people who believe that’s not specific enough because there’s a lot of fathers and sons who sell guns every now and then and at gun shows. Are they going to have to now start doing background checks? Are they going to start to have to register? 安德森·库珀：很多人认为这不够具体，因为有很多父子偶尔会卖枪，也会在枪展上卖。他们现在是不是也得开始做背景调查？他们是不是也得开始注册？
President Obama: Look, what the Justice Department has done is provided a whole range of very specific examples. And what we ultimately need I believe is for Congress to set up a system that is efficient, that doesn’t inconvenience the lawful gun seller or purchaser, but that makes sure that we’re doing the best background check possible. 奥巴马总统：听着，司法部已经提供了一系列非常具体的例子。我认为我们最终需要的是国会建立一个高效的系统，不会给合法的枪支卖家或买家带来不便，但能确保我们进行尽可能完善的背景调查。
And the fact, Anderson, that the system may not catch every single person, or there may be a circumstance where somebody doesn’t think that they have to register and do, and that may cause some red tape and bureaucracy for them, which -- or inconvenience -- has to be weighed against the fact that we may be able to save a whole bunch of families from the grief that some of the people in this audience have had to go through. 安德森，事实是，这个系统可能抓不到每一个人，或者可能会有某种情况，有人认为他们不需要注册但其实需要，这可能会给他们带来一些繁文缛节和官僚主义——或者说不便——这必须与我们可能能够挽救许多家庭免于悲痛这一事实相权衡，而在座的一些观众已经经历过这种悲痛。
And keep in mind, for the gun owners who are in attendance here, my suspicion is, is that you all had to go through a background check and it didn’t prevent you from getting a weapon. And the notion that you should have to do that but there are a whole bunch of folks who are less responsible than you who don’t have to do it doesn’t make much sense. 请记住，对于在座的枪支拥有者来说，我猜你们都经历过背景调查，而这并没有阻止你们获得武器。你们必须这样做，但却有一大群比你们不负责任的人不必这样做，这种想法说不通。
So why we should resist this -- keep in mind that, historically, the NRA was in favor of background checks. Historically, many in the Republican Party were in favor of background checks. And what’s changed is not that my proposals are particularly radical. 那么我们为什么要抵制呢——请记住，从历史上看，全国步枪协会是支持背景调查的。从历史上看，共和党的许多人都支持背景调查。改变的不是我的提案有多激进。改变的是我们突然营造了一种氛围，我提出一个像背景调查这样的提案
What’s changed is we’ve suddenly created an atmosphere in which I put out a proposal like background checks or, after Sandy Hook, was calling on Congress, along with people like Gabby Giffords, who herself was a victim of gun violence -- we put out a proposal that is common sense, modest, does not claim to solve every problem, is respectful of the Second Amendment, and the way it is described is that we’re trying to take away everybody’s guns. ，或者在桑迪胡克事件后，我和加比·吉福兹等人一起呼吁国会采取行动——她本人就是枪支暴力的受害者——我们提出的提案是常识性的、温和的，并不声称能解决所有问题，尊重第二修正案，但却被描述成我们试图拿走所有人的枪。
And part of the reason I welcomed this opportunity by CNN to have a good discussion and debate about it is because our position is consistently mischaracterized. And, by the way, there’s a reason why the NRA is not here. They’re just down the street, and since this is the main reason they exist, you’d think that they’d be prepared to have a debate with the President. 我之所以欢迎CNN提供的这次机会来进行良好的讨论和辩论，部分原因是我们的立场一直被错误地描述。顺便说一句，全国步枪协会不在这里是有原因的。他们就在街那头，既然这是他们存在的主要理由，你会认为他们会准备好和总统辩论。
Anderson Cooper: They haven't been to the White House for years. 安德森·库珀：他们已经很多年没去白宫了。
President Obama: Oh, no, no -- we’ve invited them. We've invited them. 奥巴马总统：哦不，不——我们邀请过他们。我们邀请过他们。
Anderson Cooper: So, right now, tonight, you’re saying you would be -- 安德森·库珀：那么，就在今晚，您是说您会——
President Obama: We have invited them repeatedly. But if you listen to the rhetoric, it is so over the top and so over-heated, and, most importantly, is not acknowledging the fact that there’s no other consumer item that we purchase -- 奥巴马总统：我们一再邀请他们。但如果你听听他们的言辞，那太夸张了，太激烈了，最重要的是，他们不承认一个事实，那就是我们购买的其他任何消费品——
Question: So is that an open invitation that -- 提问者：所以这是一个公开邀请吗——
President Obama: Hold on a second. Let me finish this point, Cooper. There’s nothing else in our lives that we purchase where we don’t try to make it a little safer if we can. Traffic fatalities have gone down drastically during my lifetime. And part of it is technology, and part of it is the National Highway Safety Administration does research and they figure out, you know what, seatbelts really work. And then we passed some laws to make sure seatbelts are fastened. Airbags make a lot of sense; let’s try those out. 奥巴马总统：等一下，让我说完这点，库珀。在我们的生活中，我们购买的其他东西，如果能让它更安全一点，我们都会去做。在我有生之年，交通事故死亡率大幅下降。部分原因是技术进步，部分原因是国家公路安全管理局做了研究，他们发现，安全带真
Toys -- we say, you know what, we find out that kids are swallowing toys all the time, let’s make sure that the toys aren’t so small that they swallow them if they’re for toddlers or infants. Medicine -- kids can’t open aspirin caps. 的很有效。然后我们通过了一些法律来确保人们系好安全带。安全气囊很有意义；让我们试试吧。玩具——我们说，你知道吗，我们发现孩子们总是会吞玩具，那我们就确保给幼儿或婴儿的玩具不要小到能被吞下去。药品——孩子们打不开阿司匹林的瓶盖。
Now, the notion that we would not apply the same basic principles to gun ownership as we do to everything else that we own just to try to make them safer, or the notion that anything we do to try to make them safer is somehow a plot to take away guns, that contradicts what we do to try to create a better life for Americans in every other area of our lives. 那种认为我们不应该把同样的基本原则应用于枪支拥有权，就像我们对待我们拥有的其他一切东西一样，只是为了让它们更安全，或者认为我们为了让枪支更安全所做的任何事情都是某种收缴枪支的阴谋，这种想法与我们在生活的其他所有领域为创造更美好的美国生活所做的一切是矛盾的。
Anderson Cooper: And just so I’m clear, tonight you’re saying you would welcome to meet with the NRA? 安德森·库珀：我想确认一下，今晚您是说您愿意与全国步枪协会会面？
President Obama: Anderson, I’ve said this repeatedly -- I’m happy to meet with them. I’m happy to talk to them. But the conversation has to be based on facts and truth and what we’re actually proposing, not some imaginary fiction in which Obama is trying to take away your guns. The reason, by the way, that gun sales spike not just before I propose something -- every time there is a mass shooting, gun sales spike. 奥巴马总统：安德森，我一再这样说过——我很乐意与他们会面。我很乐意与他们交谈。但对话必须基于事实、真相以及我们实际提出的方案，而不是一些奥巴马试图拿走你枪支的虚构故事。顺便说一句，枪支销量激增不仅仅是在我提出什么措施之前——每次发生大规模枪击事件，
And part of the reason is, is that the NRA has convinced many of its members that somebody is going come grab your guns -- which is, by the way, really profitable for the gun manufacturers. It’s a great advertising mechanism, but it’s not necessary. There’s enough of a market out there for people who want protection, who are sportsmen, who wants to go hunting with their kids. And we can make it safer. 枪支销量都会激增。部分原因是，全国步枪协会让其许多成员相信有人会来抢走你的枪——顺便说一句，这对枪支制造商来说真的很赚钱。这是一个很好的广告机制，但没有必要。市场上有足够多的人想要保护自己，想要从事射击运动，想要和孩子一起去打猎。我们可以让它更安全。
Anderson Cooper: I want to open this up to people in our audience. 安德森·库珀：我想请现场观众提问。
President Obama: Absolutely. 奥巴马总统：当然可以。
Anderson Cooper: People have traveled far. I want you to meet Taya Kyle. She’s the widow of Chris Kyle, former Navy SEAL, author of “American Sniper.” Taya wrote a book, “American Life: A Memoir of Love, War, Faith, and Renewal.” Taya, we’re happy you’re here. What do you want to ask the President? 安德森·库珀：大家远道而来。让我向您介绍塔亚·凯尔。她是前海军海豹突击队员、《美国狙击手》作者克里斯·凯尔的遗孀。塔亚写了一本书，《美国生活：爱、战争、信仰与重生回忆录》。塔亚，很高兴你能来。你想问总统什么问题？
Question: I appreciate you taking the time to come here. And I think that your message of hope is something I agree with, and I think it’s great. And I think that by creating new laws you do give people hope. The thing is that the laws that we create don’t stop these horrific things from happening, right? And that’s a very tough pill to swallow. 提问者：感谢您抽出时间来这里。我认为您传达的希望的讯息是我认同的，我觉得这很棒。我认为通过制定新法律，您确实给了人们希望。问题是，我们制定的法律并不能阻止这些可怕的事情发生，对吧？这让人很难接受。
President Obama: Right. 奥巴马总统：是的。
Question: We want to think that we can make a law and people will follow it. But by the very nature of their crime, they’re not following it. By the very nature of looking at the people who hurt our loved ones here, I don’t know that any of them would have been stopped by the background check. And yet -- I crave that desire for hope, too. And so I think, part of it, we have to recognize that we cannot outlaw murder, because the people who are murdering are -- they’re breaking the law, but they also don’t have a moral code that we have. 提问者：我们愿意相信我们可以制定法律，人们会遵守。但就犯罪的本质而言，他们是不会遵守的。看看那些伤害了我们亲人的人，我不知道他们中有谁会被背景调查阻止。然而——我也渴望那种希望。所以我认
And so they could do the same amount of damage with a pipe bomb. The problem is that they want to murder. 为，在某种程度上，我们必须认识到我们无法通过法律禁止谋杀，因为那些杀人的人——他们在违法，但他们也没有我们所拥有的道德准则。所以他们用管状炸弹也能造成同样程度的伤害。问题在于他们想要杀人。
And I’m wondering why it wouldn’t be a better use of our time to give people hope in a different way, to say, you know what, we -- well, first of all, actually, let me back up to that. Because with the laws, I know that at least the last I heard, the federal prosecution of gun crimes was like 40 percent. And what I mean by that is that there are people lying on these forms already, and we’re not prosecuting them. So there’s an issue there, right? 我想知道为什么我们不换一种方式给人们希望，比如说，你知道吗，我们——嗯，首先，实际上让我退回到那个话题。因为关于法律，我知道至少据我所知，联邦对枪支犯罪的起诉率大概只有百分之四十。我的意思是，已经有人在这些表格上撒谎了，而我们没有起诉他们。这本身就
But instead, if we can give people hope and say that also during this time, while you’ve been President, we are at the lowest murder rate in our country -- all-time low of murders. We’re at an all-time high of gun ownership, right? I’m not necessarily saying that the two are correlated, but what I’m saying is that we’re at an all-time low for a murder rate. That’s a big deal. 是个问题，对吧？但相反，如果我们能给人们希望，说在您担任总统期间，我们的谋杀率处于我国历史最低水平——谋杀率创历史新低。我们的枪支拥有量也处于历史最高水平，对吧？我不一定说这两者之间有相关性，但我要说的是，我们的谋杀率处于历史最低水平。这很了不起。
And yet, I think most of us in this country feel like it could happen at any moment. It could happen to any of us at any time, at a moment’s notice. When you talk about the NRA, and after a mass shooting that gun sales go up, I would argue that it’s not necessarily that I think somebody is going to come take my gun from me, but I want the hope, and the hope that I have the right to protect myself, that I don’t end up to be one of these families; that I have the freedom to carry whatever weapon I feel I need, just like your wife said on that farm. 然而，我想我们大多数人都觉得这种事随时可能发生。它可能随时发生在我们任何人身上，一瞬间的事。当你谈到全国步枪协会，以及大规模枪击事件后枪支销量上升时，我想说的是，这不一定是因为我认为有人会来拿走我的枪，而是因为我想要希望——那种我有权保护自己的希望，那种我不会成为这些家庭中一员的希望；那种我有自由携带任何我认为
The sheriff is not going to get to my house, either. And I understand that background checks aren’t necessarily going to stop me from getting a gun, but I also know that they wouldn’t have stopped any of the people here in this room from killing. And so it seems like almost a false sense of hope. So why not celebrate where we are? I guess that’s my real question -- is celebrate that we’re good people, and 99.9 percent of us are never going to kill anyone. 需要的武器的自由，就像您妻子在那个农场说的那样。治安官也不会及时赶到我家。我理解背景调查不一定能阻止我获得枪支，但我也知道，它们也不会阻止这个房间里的任何人去杀人。所以这似乎几乎是一种虚假的希望感。为什么不庆祝我们现在的状况呢？我想这才是我真正的问题——庆祝我们都是好人，我们中百分之九十九点九的人永远不会杀人。
President Obama: Well, let me make a couple of points. First of all, thanks to your husband for his service, and thank you for your service, because of extraordinary heroism that he and your family have shown in protecting all of us. And I’m very grateful for that. 奥巴马总统：嗯，让我说几点。首先，感谢你丈夫的服役，也感谢你的付出，因为他和你的家人在保护我们所有人方面表现出了非凡的勇气。我对此非常感激。
Number two, what you said about murder rates and violent crime generally is something that we don’t celebrate enough. The fact of the matter is, is that violent crime has been steadily declining across America for a pretty long time. And you wouldn’t always know it by watching television, but overall, most cities are much safer than they were 10 years ago or 20 years ago. 第二，你所说的关于谋杀率和暴力犯罪的情况，是我们没有充分庆祝的事情。事实是，在相当长的一段时间里，美国各地的暴力犯罪一直在稳步下降。你看电视可能不一定知道，但总的来说，大多数城市比十年前或二十年前要安全得多。
Now, I’d challenge the notion that the reason for that is because there’s more gun ownership, because if you look at where are the areas with the highest gun ownership, those are the places, in some cases, where the crime rate hasn’t dropped down that much. And the places where there’s pretty stiff restrictions on gun ownership, in some of those places the crime has dropped really quickly. So I’m not sure that there’s a one-to-one correlation there. 现在，我要质疑这样一种说法，即其原因是因为有更多的枪支拥有量，因为如果你看看枪支拥有率最高的地区，在某些情况下，那些地方的犯罪率并没有下降那么多。而那些对枪支拥有有相当严格限制的地方，在某些地方犯罪率下降得非常快。所以我不确定这两者之间存在一一对应的关系。
But I think the most important point I want to make is that you will be able to purchase a firearm. Some criminals will get their hands on firearms even if there’s a background check. Somebody may lie on a form. Somebody will intend to commit a crime but they don’t have a record that shows up on the background check system. 但我认为我想提出的最重要的一点是，你将能够购买枪支。即使有背景调查，一些罪犯仍然会设法获得枪支。有人可能会在表格上撒谎。有人可能打算犯罪，但他们没有在背景调查系统中显示的记录。
But in the same way that we don’t eliminate all traffic accidents, but over the course of 20 years, traffic accidents get lower -- there’s still tragedies, there’s still drunk drivers, there’s still people who don’t wear their seatbelts -- but over time, that violence was reduced, and so families are spared. That’s the same thing that we can do with gun ownership. 但就像我们无法消除所有交通事故一样，但在二十年的过程中，交通事故减少了——仍然有悲剧，仍然有酒驾的司机，仍然有不系安全带的人——但随着时间的推移，这种暴力减少了，因此许多家庭得以幸免。这就是我们在枪支拥有方面可以做的同样的事情。
There is a way for us to set up a system where you, a responsible gun owner, who I’m assuming, given your husband and your family, is a much better marksman than I am, can have a firearm to protect yourself, but where it is much harder for somebody to fill up a car with guns and sell them to 13-year-old kids on the streets. And that is I think what we’re trying to do. 我们有办法建立一个系统，让你——一个负责任的枪支拥有者，我猜，考虑到你的丈夫和你的家庭，你的枪法比我好得多——可以拥有枪支来保护自己，但同时让某人装满一车枪然后卖给街上13岁的孩子变得困难得多。我认为这就是我们想要做的。
What we’re also trying to do is make the database more effective -- so that’s part of the proposal -- which, by the way, will convenience you when you go to the store, because if we can set up a 24/7 background check system, then that means that it’s less likely that things slip through the cracks or it’s more difficult for you to get your background check completed. 我们还在努力使数据库更有效——这是提案的一部分——顺便说一句，这会在你去商店时给你带来便利，因为如果我们能建立一个全天候的背景调查系统，那就意味着不太可能有疏漏，或者你完成背景调查的难度会降低。
And we’re also trying to close a loophole that has been developing over the last decade where now people are using cut-out trusts and shell corporations to purchase the most dangerous weapons -- sawed-off shotguns, automatic weapons, silencers -- and don’t have to go through background checks at all. And we don’t know whether -- are these sales going to drug traffickers? We don’t know who’s purchasing them right now. And so what we’re saying is, you know what, that is something that we’ve got to do something about. 我们还在努力堵塞过去十年中逐渐形成的一个漏洞，现在人们利用空壳信托和空壳公司购买最危险的武器——锯短的霰弹枪、自动武器、消音器——而且根本不需要经过背景调查。我们不知道——这些销售是不是流向了毒贩？我们现在不知道是谁在购买。所以我们想说的是，你知道吗，这是我们必须采取行动的事情。
The same thing is true with Internet sales, where one study has shown that one out of 30 persons who are purchasing weapons over the Internet turn out to have a felony record. And that’s not something you want to see. 网络销售也是如此，一项研究表明，每三十个在网上购买武器的人中就有一个有重罪记录。这不是你想看到的情况。
Anderson Cooper: I think one question a lot of people have about you is do you believe the fundamental notion that a good guy with a gun or a good woman with a gun is an important bulwark against a bad person with a gun? And before you answer, I want you to meet Kimberly Corban. Kimberly was a college student in Colorado in 2006 -- Kimberly is right over there. She was raped by a man who broke into her apartment. She testified for three hours in the trial against him. Her attacker was sentenced to 24-years-to-life in prison. And I know that attack, Kimberly, changed your view of handguns. 安德森·库珀：我想很多人对您有一个疑问：您是否相信一个基本观念，即一个带枪的好人或好女人是对抗带枪的坏人的重要堡垒？在您回答之前，我想让您认识金伯莉·科本。金伯莉2006年是科罗拉多州的
What’s your question for the President? 一名大学生——金伯莉就在那边。她被一名闯入她公寓的男子强奸。她在对他的审判中作证了三个小时。袭击者被判处24年至终身监禁。我知道那次袭击，金伯莉，改变了你对手枪的看法。你想问总统什么问题？
Question: Absolutely. As a survivor of rape and now a mother to two small children, it seems like being able to purchase a firearm of my choosing, and being able to carry that wherever me and my family are, it seems like my basic responsibility as a parent at this point. I have been unspeakably victimized once already, and I refuse to let that happen again to myself or my kids. So why can’t your Administration see that these restrictions that you’re putting to make it harder for me to own a gun, or harder for me to take that where I need to be is actually just making my kids and I less safe? 提问者：当然。作为一名强奸幸存者，现在又是两个年幼孩子的母亲，能够购买我选择的枪支，能够在我和家人所在的任何地方携带它，在我看来这是我作为父母的基本责任。我已经遭受过一次无法言喻的伤害，我拒绝让这种事再次发生在我自己或我的孩子身上。那么为什么您的政府看不到，您正在实施的这些限制让我更难拥有枪支，或者更难把枪带到我需要去的地方，这实际上是在让我和我的孩子更不安全？
President Obama: Well, Kimberly, first of all, obviously, your story is horrific. The strength you’ve shown in telling your story and being here tonight is remarkable. And so I’m really proud of you for that. 奥巴马总统：嗯，金伯莉，首先，显然你的经历太可怕了。你讲述自己的故事并今晚来到这里所展现出的勇气是非凡的。我真的为你感到骄傲。
I just want to repeat that there’s nothing that we’ve proposed that would make it harder for you to purchase a firearm. And now, you may be referring to issues like concealed carry, but those tend to be state-by-state decisions, and we’re not making any proposals with respect to what states are doing. They can make their own decisions there. So there really is no -- nothing that we’re proposing that prevents you or makes it harder for you to purchase a firearm if you need one. 我只想重申，我们提出的任何措施都不会让你更难购买枪支。现在，你可能指的是隐蔽携带之类的问题，但这些往往是各州自行决定的，我们没有就各州的做法提出任何提案。他们可以在那里做出自己的决定。所以真的没有——我们提出的任何措施都不会阻止你或让你更难在需要时购买枪支。
There are always questions as to whether or not having a firearm in the home protects you from that kind of violence. And I’m not sure we can resolve that. People argue it both sides. What is true is, is that you have to be pretty well trained in order to fire a weapon against somebody who is assaulting you and catches you by surprise. And what is also true is there’s always the possibility that that firearm in a home leads to a tragic accident. We can debate that, round or flat. 关于家里有枪支是否能保护你免受那种暴力，总是有争议的。我不确定我们能解决这个问题。人们双方都有争论。事实是，你必须接受相当好的训练，才能对一个袭击你、让你措手不及的人开枪。同样事实是，家里的枪支总是有可能导致悲惨的事故。我们可以争论这个，各执一词。
But for now, what I just want to focus on is that you certainly would like to make it a little harder for that assailant to have also had a gun. You certainly would want to make sure that if he gets released, that he now can’t do what he did to you to somebody else. And it’s going to be easier for us to prevent him from getting a gun if there’s a strong background system in place -- background check system in place. 但现在，我只想关注的是，你肯定也想让那个袭击者更难获得枪支。你肯定也想确保如果他被释放，他现在不能对你做的事再对别人做。如果有一个强大的背景调查系统到位，我们就更容易阻止他获得枪支。
And so if you look at the statistics, there’s no doubt that there are times where somebody who has a weapon has been able to protect themselves and scare off an intruder or an assailant. But what is more often the case is that they may not have been able to protect themselves but they end up the victim of the weapon that they purchased themselves. And that’s something that can be debated. 所以如果你看看统计数据，毫无疑问，有时候有武器的人能够保护自己，吓跑入侵者或袭击者。但更常见的情况是，他们可能无法保护自己，反而成为自己购买的武器的受害
In the meantime, all I’m focused on is making sure that a terrible crime like yours that was committed is not made easier because somebody can go on the Internet and just buy whatever weapon they want without us finding out whether they’re a criminal or not. 者。这是可以争论的。与此同时，我所关注的只是确保像你所经历的那样可怕的犯罪不会因为有人可以上网随便买任何武器而我们却无法查明他们是不是罪犯而变得更容易。
Anderson Cooper: Kimberly, thank you for being here. I appreciate it. 安德森·库珀：金伯莉，谢谢你来这里。非常感谢。
You talked about Chicago, and there’s a lot of folks from Chicago here tonight. I want you to meet -- or I want everybody to meet, because I know you’ve met her before, Cleo Pendleton. She’s sitting over there. And I should point out -- I think I said it earlier -- 55 shootings in Chicago in just the past seven days. Cleo Pendleton, her daughter, Hadiya, performed at your second inauguration. She was shot to death a little more than a week later. She was 15 years old. She was an honor student, a majorette. And you being here tonight honors her, so thank you very much for being here. 你谈到了芝加哥，今晚这里有很多来自芝加哥的人。我想让你认识——或者我想让大家认识，因为我知道你以前见过她——克莱奥·彭德尔顿。她坐在那边。我应该指出——我想我之前说过——过去七天芝加哥就发生了55起枪击
What’s your question to the President? 事件。克莱奥·彭德尔顿的女儿哈迪娅在您的第二次就职典礼上表演。一周多一点之后，她被枪杀了。她当时只有15岁。她是一名优等生，是仪仗队队员。你今晚来到这里是对她的纪念，非常感谢你能来。你想问总统什么问题？
Question: Well, I want to say thank you, first of all, for making it more difficult for guns to get in the hands of those that shouldn’t have them. Thank you for the action you took on Tuesday. But I want to ask a question -- how can we stop the trafficking of guns from states with looser gun laws into states with tougher gun laws? Because I believe that’s the case often in Chicago, and possibly the source of the gun that shot and murdered my daughter. 提问者：嗯，首先我想说谢谢您，谢谢您让枪支更难落入不该拥有它们的人手中。感谢您周二采取的行动。但我想问一个问题——我们如何阻止枪支从枪支法律较宽松的州流入枪支法律较严格的州？因为我认为芝加哥经常是这种情况，而且可能就是射杀我女儿的那把枪的来源。
President Obama: Well, first of all, it’s great to see you again. And part of the reason that we do this is because when you meet parents of wonderful young people and they tell their stories, at least for me, I think of Malia and I think of Sasha and I think of my nieces and I think of my nephews. And the pain that any of us go through with a loss like that is extraordinary. And I couldn’t be prouder of the families who are here representing both sides but who’ve been affected in those ways. 奥巴马总统：嗯，首先，很高兴再次见到你。我们之所以这样做，部分原因是当你遇到优秀年轻人的父母，他们讲述自己的故事时，至少对我来说，我会想到玛丽亚，想到萨沙，想到我的侄女们，想到我的侄子们。我们任何人经历那样的失去，痛苦都是难以想象的。我为在座的那些家庭感到无比骄傲，他们代表了双方立场，但都受到了这些事件的影响。
If we are able to set up a strong background check system -- and my proposal, by the way, includes hiring -- having the FBI hire a couple hundred more people to help process background checks, because they’re big numbers, you’re talking about 20 million checks that are getting done every year -- hiring 200,000 -- or 200 more ATF agents to be able to go after unscrupulous gun dealers, then that will apply across the country. 如果我们能够建立一个强大的背景调查系统——顺便说一句，我的提案包括让联邦调查局再雇用几百人来帮助处理背景调查，因为数量很大，你说的是每年要进行两千万次调查——再雇用两万名——或者两百名更多的酒精、烟草与火器管理局特工来追查无良枪支经销商，那么这将在全国范围内适用。
And so, some states may have laws that allow for conceal-and -carry; some states may not. There’s still going to be differences. But what will at least be consistent across the country is that it’s a little bit harder to get a gun. 所以，有些州可能有允许隐蔽携带的法律；有些州可能没有。仍然会有差异。但至少在全国范围内一致的是，获得枪支会变得更难一点。
Now, we can’t guarantee that criminals are not going to have ways of getting guns. But, for example, it may be a little more difficult and a little more expensive, and the laws of supply and demand mean that if something is harder to get and it’s a little more expensive to get, then fewer people get them. And that, in and of itself, could make a difference. 现在，我们不能保证罪犯不会有办法获得枪支。但是，例如，这可能会变得更困难一点，更昂贵一点，而供求法则意味着，如果某样东西更难获得，获取成本更高，那么获得它的人就会更少。这本身就可能产生影响。
So if somebody is a straw purchaser -- and what that means is they don’t intend the guns for themselves, they intend to resell them to somebody else -- they go to a gun show in Indiana, where right now they don’t have to do a background check, load up a van, and open up that van and sell them to kids in gangs in Chicago -- if now that person has to go through a background check, they’ve got to register, ATF has the capacity then to find out if and when a gun is used in a crime in Chicago where that gun had come from. 所以如果有人是代购者——这意味着他们买枪不是给自己用，而是打算转卖给别人——他们去印第安纳州的枪展，在那里他们目前不需要做背景调查，装满一辆厢式货车，然后打开车门卖给芝加哥帮派里的孩子
And now you know here’s somebody who seems to be willing to sell a gun to a 15-year-old who had a known record. ——如果现在那个人必须经过背景调查，必须注册，那么酒精、烟草与火器管理局就有能力在芝加哥发生枪支犯罪时查明那把枪来自哪里。然后你就知道了，有人似乎愿意把枪卖给一个有已知记录的15岁孩子。
Anderson Cooper: But you’re only going to be asking people to get a license and do background checks if they give out business cards, if they’re selling weapons that are in the original packaging. Somebody just walking around a gun show selling a weapon is not necessarily going to have to register. 安德森·库珀：但您只会要求那些发放名片、出售原包装武器的人获取执照并进行背景调查。有些人只是在枪展上到处走卖武器，不一定需要注册。
President Obama: No -- look, there’s going to be a case-by-case evaluation: Are they on an ongoing basis making a profit and are they repeatedly selling firearms. 奥巴马总统：不——听着，会有逐案评估：他们是否在持续盈利，是否在反复销售枪支。
Anderson Cooper: I want you to meet Sheriff Paul Babeu of Pinal County, Arizona. He’s a Republican running for Congress. After the recent terror attacks, Sheriff, I know you’ve been telling citizens to arm themselves to protect their families. What’s your question to the President? 安德森·库珀：我想让您认识亚利桑那州皮纳尔县警长保罗·巴博。他是一名正在竞选国会议员的共和党人。在最近的恐怖袭击之后，警长，我知道你一直在告诉市民武装自己以保护家人。你想问总统什么问题？
Question: Well, first, deputies’ slow response time has been mentioned a couple times. I want to be clear that my deputies have a very fast emergency response -- 提问者：嗯，首先，有人提到了副警长反应迟缓的问题。我想澄清一下，我的副警长们应急反应非常快——
President Obama: I’m sure that’s true. 奥巴马总统：我相信确实如此。
Question: Yes. Mr. President, you’ve said you’ve been thwarted by -- frustrated by Congress. As a sheriff, I oftentimes get frustrated. But I don’t make the laws and I’ve sworn an oath to enforce the law, to uphold the Constitution, the same oath you’ve taken. And the talk and why we’re here is all these mass shootings, and yet you’ve said in your executive action it wouldn’t have solved even one of these or the terrorist attack -- 提问者：是的。总统先生，您说过您一直被国会挫败——对国会感到沮丧。作为一名警长，我也经常感到沮丧。但我不制定法律，我宣誓要执行法律，维护宪法，和您宣誓的一样。我们今天讨论的以及我们来到这里的原因都是这些大规模枪击事件，然而您说过您的行政措施甚至不能解决其中任何一起或那次恐怖袭击——
President Obama: No, I didn’t say that. I didn’t say that it wouldn’t solve one. 奥巴马总统：不，我没有那样说。我没有说它连一起都解决不了。
Question: Well, looking at the information, what would it have solved? Now, knowing -- 提问者：那么，根据现有信息，它能解决什么呢？现在，知道——
Anderson Cooper: None of the recent mass shootings, I should point out, none of the guns were purchased from an unlicensed dealer. 安德森·库珀：我应该指出，最近的大规模枪击事件中，没有一把枪是从无照经销商那里购买的。
Question: Correct. And that’s what I’m speaking to -- the executive action that you mentioned earlier. Aspirin, toys, or cars, they’re not written about in the Constitution. I want to know -- and I think all of us really want to get to the solution, and you said don’t talk past each other -- what would you have done to prevent these mass shootings and the terrorist attack? And how do we get those with mental illness and criminals -- that’s the real problem here -- how are we going to get them to follow the laws? 提问者：没错。这正是我要说的——您之前提到的行政措施。阿司匹林、玩具或汽车，它们没有被写入宪法。我想知道——我想我们所有人都真的想找到解决方案，而您说过不要各说各话——您会做些什么来防止这些大规模枪击事件和恐怖袭击？我们如何让那些有精神疾病的人和罪犯——这才是真正的问题所在——我们如何让他们遵守法律？
President Obama: Well, first of all, appreciate your service. Good luck on your race. You sure you want to go to Congress? 奥巴马总统：嗯，首先，感谢你的服务。祝你竞选顺利。你确定你想去国会吗？
Question: I don’t want to [inaudible] -- 提问者：我不想[听不清]——
President Obama: I’m sure that’s true. That will hurt you. And I’m sure it’s a Republican district. Look, crime is always going to be with us. So I think it’s really important for us not to suggest that if we can’t solve every crime, we shouldn’t try to solve any crimes. 奥巴马总统：我相信是这样。那会对你不利的。而且我相信那是一个共和党选区。听着，犯罪永远会伴随着我们。所以我认为对我们来说非常重要的是，不要暗示如果我们不能解决所有犯罪，我们就不应该尝试解决任何犯罪。
And the problem when we talk about that guns don’t kill people; people kill people, or it’s primarily a mental health problem, or it’s a criminal and evil problem and that’s what we have to get at -- all of us are interested in fighting crime. I’m very proud of the fact that violent crime rates have continued to go down during the course of my presidency. I’ve got an Attorney General, an FBI that works very closely with local law enforcement in busting up crime rings all the time. That’s a huge priority to us. And we’re probably providing grants to your department to help go after criminals. 当我们谈论枪支不会杀人；人才会杀人，或者这主要是心理健康问题，或者这是犯罪和邪恶的问题，这才是我们需要解决的——我们所有人都对打击犯罪感兴趣。我为在我的总统任期内暴力犯罪率持续下降感到非常自豪。我有一位司法部长，一个联邦调查局，他们一直与地方执法部门密切合作，不断捣毁犯罪团伙。这是我们的首要任务。我们可能还在为你的部门提供拨款，帮助打击罪犯。
The challenge we have is that in many instances, you don’t know ahead of time who’s going to be the criminal. It’s not as if criminals walk around with a label saying, “I’m a criminal.” And, by the way, the young man who killed those kids in Newtown, he didn’t have a criminal record, and so we didn’t know ahead of time, necessarily, that he was going to do something like that. But he was able to have access to an arsenal that allowed him in very short order to kill an entire classroom of small children. 我们面临的挑战是，在很多情况下，你事先不知道谁会成为罪犯。罪犯又不会带着"我是罪犯"的标签到处走。顺便说一句，那个在纽敦杀死那些孩子的年轻人，他没有犯罪记录，所以我们事先不一定知道他会做那
And so the question then becomes, are there ways for us -- since we can’t identify that person all the time, are there ways for us to make it less lethal when something like that happens? 样的事。但他能够获得一个军火库，让他在很短的时间内杀死一整个教室的小孩子。所以问题就变成了，我们有没有办法——既然我们不能总是识别出那个人，我们有没有办法在那样的事情发生时降低它的致命性？
And I mentioned this during my speech at the White House a couple of days ago. Right around the time of Newtown, in China, a guy who was obviously similarly deranged had a knife and started attacking a bunch of schoolchildren. About the same number were cut or stabbed by this guy. But most of them survived. And the reason was because he wasn’t yielding a semi-automatic. 我几天前在白宫的演讲中提到过这一点。就在纽敦事件发生的那段时间，在中国，一个显然精神同样失常的人拿着刀开始袭击一群学童。被这个人砍伤或刺伤的人数差不多。但大多数人都活下来了。原因是他没有手持半自动武器。
So the main point I think that I want to make here is that everybody here is in favor of going after criminals, locking them up, making sure that we’re creating an environment where kids don’t turn into criminals and providing the support that they need. Those are all important things. Nobody is saying we need to be going soft on criminals. 所以我认为我想在这里提出的主要观点是，在座的每个人都赞成追捕罪犯，把他们关起来，确保我们创造一个让孩子不会变成罪犯的环境，并提供他们需要的支持。这些都是重要的事情。没有人说我们需要对罪犯手软。
What we do have to make sure of is that we don’t make it so easy for them to have access to deadly weapons. In neighborhoods like Chicago -- I keep on using Chicago -- this is all across the country. 我们必须确保的是，我们不要让他们那么容易获得致命武器。在像芝加哥这样的社区——我一直在举芝加哥的例子——全国各地都是如此。你走进任何一个社区，过去父母看到一些孩子在街角捣乱，他们会说，
You go into any neighborhood, it used to be that parents would see some kids messing around on the corner and they’d say, “Yo” -- even if they weren’t the parent of those children -- “go back inside, stop doing that.” And over time, it was a lot harder to discipline somebody else’s kid and have the community maintain order, or talk to police officers if somebody is doing something wrong, because now somebody is worried about getting shot. "喂"——即使他们不是那些孩子的父母——"回屋里去，别闹了。" 随着时间的推移，管教别人的孩子、让社区维持秩序，或者在有人做错事时和警察交谈，都变得困难得多，因为现在人们担心会被枪击。
And if we can create an environment that’s just a little bit safer in those communities, that will help. And if it doesn’t infringe on your Second Amendment rights, and it doesn’t infringe on your Second Amendment rights, and you’re still able to get a firearm for your protection, why wouldn’t we want to do that? 如果我们能在那些社区创造一个稍微安全一点的环境，那会有所帮助。如果这没有侵犯你的第二修正案权利，如果这没有侵犯你的第二修正案权利，而你仍然能够获得枪支用于保护，我们为什么不想这样做呢？
Anderson Cooper: We’ve got to take a break. We’re going to take a quick break. Our live town hall conversation, “Guns in America,” with President Barack Obama continues right after this. 安德森·库珀：我们得休息一下。我们将短暂休息。我们的现场市民大会对话"美国枪支问题"，奥巴马总统继续参与，广告之后马上回来。
[commercial break] 【广告时段】
Anderson Cooper: And welcome back. We’re live at George Mason University in Fairfax, Virginia, continuing our live town hall conversation with President Barack Obama, “Guns In America,” talking to voices from all sides of the issue, including the President. 安德森·库珀：欢迎回来。我们在弗吉尼亚州费尔法克斯的乔治梅森大学进行现场直播，继续我们与巴拉克·奥巴马总统的"美国枪支问题"现场市民大会对话，与来自该议题各方的人士交谈，包括总统。
You made your announcement just the other day in a very obviously emotional ceremony at the White House. And I want to play just a moment from it for those who haven’t seen it. 就在前几天，您在白宫一个非常情绪化的仪式上宣布了您的方案。我想为那些还没看过的人播放一小段。
[Video is shown.] 【播放视频】
I think a lot of people were surprised by that moment. 我想很多人对那个时刻感到惊讶。
President Obama: I was, too, actually. I visited Newtown two days after what happened, so it was still very raw. It’s the only time I’ve ever seen Secret Service cry on duty. And it wasn’t just the parents. You had siblings -- 10-year-olds, 8-year-olds, 3-year-olds, who, in some cases, didn’t even understand that their brother or sister weren’t going to be coming home. And I’ve said this before -- it continues to haunt me. It was one of the worst days of my presidency. 奥巴马总统：其实我也是。事件发生两天后我去了纽敦，所以当时还很沉痛。那是我唯一一次看到特勤局特工在执行任务时流泪。不仅仅是父母们。还有兄弟姐妹——10岁的、8岁的、3岁的孩子，在某些情况下，他们甚至不明白他们的兄弟姐妹不会再回家了。我以前说过——这件事一直困扰着我。那是我总统任内最糟糕的日子之一。
But, look, I want to emphasize that there are a lot of tragedies that happen out there as a consequence of the victims of crime. There are police officers who are out there laying down their lives to protect us every single day. And tears are appropriate for them, as well, and I visit with those families, as well -- victims of terrorism, soldiers coming home. 但是，听着，我想强调的是，还有很多悲剧是犯罪受害者造成的。有警察每天都在那里为保护我们而献出生命。为他们流泪也是应该的，我也会探望那些家庭——恐怖主义的受害者，归来的士兵。
There’s a lot of heartache out there. And I don’t suggest that this is the only kind of heartache we should be working on. I spent a lot of time and a lot of hours -- in fact, a lot more hours than I spend on this -- trying to prevent terrorist attacks. I spend a lot of time and a lot of hours trying to make sure that we’re continuing to reduce our crime rate. 有很多令人心痛的事。我并不是说这是我们唯一应该努力解决的心痛。我花了很多时间和很多小时——事实上，比我在这个问题上花的时间多得多——试图防止恐怖袭击。我花了很多时间和很多小时试图确保我们继续降低犯罪率。
There are a whole bunch of other answers that are just as important when it comes to making sure that the streets of places like Chicago and Baltimore are safer. Making sure kids get a good early childhood education. Making sure that we’re teaching conflict resolution that doesn’t involve violence. Making sure that faith communities are able to reach out to young people and intervene in timely ways. 要确保芝加哥和巴尔的摩等地的街道更安全，还有很多其他同样重要的答案。确保孩子们获得良好的幼儿教育。确保我们教授不涉及暴力的冲突解决方式。确保信仰社区能够接触年轻人并及时进行干预。
So this is not a recipe for solving every problem. Again, I just want to emphasize that the goal here is just to make progress. And it’s interesting, as I enter into my last year as President, I could not be prouder of the work that we’ve done. But it also makes you really humble, because you realize that change takes a long time and a lot of the work you do is just to incrementally make things better so that, 10 years from now, 20 years from now, the crime rate has gone down. 所以这不是解决所有问题的良方。我再次想强调的是，这里的目标只是取得进展。有趣的是，当我进入总统任期的最后一年时，我为我们所做的工作感到无比自豪。但这也让你变得非常谦卑，因为你意识到改变需要很长时间，而你做的很多工作只是为了逐步改善情况，这样十年后，二十年后，犯罪率就下降了。
That’s not just because of my Administration. That’s the groundwork that was laid by a bunch of good work by law enforcement and others for years, across Administrations, on a bipartisan basis. 这不仅仅是因为我的政府。这是多年来，在历届政府中，在两党合作的基础上，执法部门和其他人的大量良好工作奠定的基础。
The same is true with traffic safety. The same is true with advances in medicine. The same can be true with this if we stop exaggerating or mischaracterizing the positions of either side and we just come up with some sensible areas that people agree with. Background checks are an example: The majority of gun owners agree with this. 交通安全也是如此。医学进步也是如此。如果我们停止夸大或错误描述双方的立场，只是找出一些人们达成共识的合理领域，这个问题也可以如此。背景调查就是一个例子：大多数枪支拥有者都同意这一点。
Anderson Cooper: You talk about faith communities. Father Michael Pfleger is here. I know you know him well. He’s a Roman Catholic priest in Chicago. For those who don’t know, his church is St. Sabina on the South Side of Chicago. I was there about a month ago. It was a great honor to be there. Father, you’ve given a lot of eulogies for a lot of kids in your community. Far too many over the 40 years that you have been there. What your question for the President? 安德森·库珀：您谈到了信仰社区。迈克尔·普弗莱格神父在这里。我知道您很了解他。他是芝加哥的一位罗马天主教神父。对于那些不认识的人，他的教堂是芝加哥南区的圣萨布里纳教堂。我大约一个月前去过那里。能去那里是我莫大的荣幸。神父，您为您社区里的很多孩子主持过太多葬礼了。在您任职的40年里，实在太多了。您想问总统什么问题？
Question: Mr. President, first of all, thank you for your courage and your passion, and keep pushing. I happen to be from one of those cities where violence is not going down. Not only, as Anderson mentioned, the 55 shot, there’s been 11 killed in seven days in Chicago. And one of the main reasons for that is the easy access to guns. It’s easier to get a gun in my neighborhood than it is a computer. And the reality is, is because many of those guns have been bought legally. 提问者：总统先生，首先，感谢您的勇气和热情，请继续推动。我恰好来自那些暴力没有下降的城市之一。不仅如此，正如安德森提到的，55人被枪击，芝加哥七天内就有11人被杀。其中一个主要原因是枪支容易获得。在我的社区，弄到一把枪比弄到一台电脑还容易。而现实是，因为那些枪中有很多是合法购买的
And I understand why people are pushing against you, because I understand it’s a business and it’s about a business, and so if we cut back the easy access to guns, less money for gun manufacturers, less money for the gun lobby. I understand the business of it. But that business is causing blood and the kids that are dying in Chicago. And for many years, nobody even cared about Chicago because the violence is primarily black and brown. 。我理解为什么人们反对您，因为我理解这是一门生意，这关乎生意，所以如果我们减少枪支的容易获得，枪支制造商的钱就少了，枪支游说团体的钱就少了。我理解其中的商业逻辑。但那门生意正在造成流血，正在造成芝加哥的孩子死亡。多年来，甚至没有人关心芝加哥，因为暴力主要发生在黑人和棕色人种身上。
The reality is that I don’t understand why we can’t title guns just like cars. If I have a car and I give it to you, Mr. President, and I don’t transfer a title and you’re in an accident, it’s on me. We don’t take cars away by putting titles on them. Why can’t we do that with guns and every gun in America? So if somebody who’s buying 200 guns, selling them on the streets, if they can’t transfer those titles, then they’re going to be held responsible for the guns that they sell. 现实是，我不明白为什么我们不能像管理汽车一样给枪支上牌照。如果我有一辆车，我把它给您，总统先生，而我没有过户，您出了事故，责任在我。我们给汽车上牌照并没有夺走汽车。为什么我们不能对枪支、对美国的每一把枪这样做呢？所以如果有人买了200把枪，在街上出售，如果他们不能转让那些牌照，那么他们就要为他们出售的枪支负责。
President Obama: Well, Father Mike, first of all, for those of you who don’t know him, has been working since before I moved to Chicago, and I was a 23-year-old when I first met him. And somehow I aged and he didn’t. 奥巴马总统：嗯，迈克神父，首先，对于那些不认识他的人来说，他在我搬到芝加哥之前就一直在工作了，我第一次见到他时才23岁。不知怎么的，我变老了，他没有。
Anderson Cooper: Your gray hair is not going back, I can tell you from experience. 安德森·库珀：您的白头发是不会变回去的，我可以凭经验告诉您。
President Obama: He was always the best-looking priest in Chicago. But Father Pfleger has done heroic work at St. Sabina Parish. 奥巴马总统：他一直是芝加哥最帅的神父。但普弗莱格神父在圣萨布里纳教区做了英雄般的工作。
Issues like licensing, registration, that’s an area where there’s just not enough national consensus at this stage to even consider it. And part of it is, is people’s concern that that becomes a prelude to taking people’s guns away. I mean, part of the challenge in this is that the gun debate gets wrapped up in broader debates about whether the federal government is oppressive. And there are conspiracy theories floating around the Internet these days all the time. 像颁发执照、注册这样的问题，在这个阶段还没有足够的全国共识来考虑这些。部分原因是人们担心这会成为没收人们枪支的前奏。我的意思是，这其中的部分挑战在于，枪支辩论被卷入了关于联邦政府是否具有压迫性的更广泛辩论中。这些天
We did a military exercise in Texas, and a whole bunch of folks were sure that this was the start of martial law, and were suggesting maybe don’t cooperate with the United States Army in an effort to prepare so that if they get deployed overseas, they can handle it. But that’s how difficult sometimes these debates are. 互联网上到处都是阴谋论。我们在得克萨斯州进行了一次军事演习，一大群人确信这是戒严令的开始，还建议不要配合美国陆军的行动——那次演习是为了做准备，这样如果他们被部署到海外，就能应对自如。但这就是这些辩论有时有多困难。
But I want to pick up on some things where I think there should be consensus. One of those areas that I talked about at the speech, part of the proposal is developing smart gun technology. Now, this is an interesting example. I don’t exactly understand this, and maybe there will be somebody in the audience who explains it to me. Back in 1997, the CEO of Colt said we can design, or are starting to develop guns where you can only use it if you’ve got a chip, where you wear a band or a bracelet, and that then protects your 2-year-old or 3-year-old from picking up the gun and using it. 但我想谈谈一些我认为应该达成共识的事情。我在演讲中谈到的其中一个领域，也是提案的一部分，就是开发智能枪支技术。现在，这是一个有趣的例子。我不太理解这一点，也许观众中有人会向我解释。早在1997年，柯尔特公司的首席执行官就说我们可以设计，或者
And a boycott was called against him, and they had to back off of developing that technology. The same with Smith & Wesson. They were in the process of developing similar technology, and they were attacked by the NRA as “surrendering.” 说正在开始开发一种只有你有芯片才能使用的枪，你戴一个腕带或手镯，这样就能防止你两岁或三岁的孩子捡起枪来使用。然后有人发起了对他的抵制，他们不得不放弃开发这项技术。史密斯威森也是如此。他们当时正在开发类似的技术，却被全国步枪协会攻击为"投降"。
Now, to me, this does not make sense. If you are a gun owner, I would think that you would at least want a choice so that if you wanted to purchase a firearm that could only be used by you -- in part to avoid accidents in your home, in part to make sure that if it’s stolen, it’s not used by a criminal, in part, if there’s an intruder, you pull the gun but somehow it gets wrested away from you, that gun can’t be turned on you and used on you -- I would think there might be a market for that. You could sell that gun. 在我看来，这说不通。如果你是一个枪支拥有者，我会认为你至少想要一个选择，这样如果你想购买一把只有你才能使用的枪支——部分是为了避免家里发生意外，部分是为了确保如果枪被偷，不会被罪犯使用，部分是如果有入侵者，你拔出枪但不知怎么被夺走了，那把枪不能反过来对着你用在你身上——我会认为这可能会有市场。你可以卖那种枪。
Now, I’m not saying that necessarily would be the only gun that’s available, but it seems to me that that would be something that in any other area, in any other product, any other commercial venture, there would be some research and development on that because that’s a promising technology. 我不是说那一定是唯一可用的枪支，但在我看来，在任何其他领域，任何其他产品，任何其他商业项目，都会有一些研发投入，因为这是一项很有前景的技术。
It has not been developed primarily because it’s been blocked by either the NRA, which is funded by gun manufacturers, or other reasons. In part, what we proposed was, you know what, we’re going to do some of the research. We’ll work with the private sector. We’ll figure out whether or not this technology can be developed -- and then give everybody a choice in terms of the kind of firearm that they want to purchase -- because I think that there will, in fact, be a market for that. And over time, that’s an example of how we could reduce some of the preventable gun deaths that are out there. 它没有得到开发，主要是因为它被全国步枪协会——由枪支制造商资助的——或其他原因阻止了。在某种程度上，我们提出的是，你知道吗，我们来做一些研究。我们将与私营部门合作。我们将弄清楚这项技术是否能够开发出来——然后让每个人都可以选择他们想要购买的枪支类型——因为我认为事实上会有市场的。随着时间的推移，这就是一个例子，说明我们如何能够减少一些可预防的枪支死亡。
Anderson Cooper: I want to bring in somebody who actually knows a lot about selling guns. I want you to meet Kris Jacob. He’s vice president of the American Firearms Retailers Association. He’s the owner of the Bullseye Indoor Shooting Range and gun store in San Rafael, California. Kris, it’s great to have you here. First of all, how is business under President Obama? Because everything I read says gun sales have been going up. Every time he talks about guns, gun sales go up. 安德森·库珀：我想请一位真正非常了解枪支销售的人提问。我想让您认识克里斯·雅各布。他是美国枪支零售商协会副主席。他是加利福尼亚州圣拉斐尔"靶心室内射击场"和枪店的老板。克里斯，很高兴你能来。首先，奥巴马总统任期内生意怎么样？因为我读到的所有消息都说枪支销量一直在上升。每次他谈论枪支，枪支销量就上升。
Question: It’s been busy. And certainly I think that shows, as Taya said earlier, that there’s a very serious concern in this country about personal security. And the sheriff is right -- they do everything they possibly can to make sure they get there as quickly as they possibly can. And my question is actually focused around law enforcement, as well. There’s 53,000 licensed gun dealers in the United States who stand behind the counter and say no to people all day. 提问者：生意一直很忙。当然，我认为这表明，正如塔亚之前所说，这个国家的人们对个人安全有着非常严重的担忧。警长说得对——他们尽一切可能确保尽快赶到现场。我的问题实际上也集中在执法方面。美国有五万三千名持照枪支经销商，他们每天都站在柜台后对人说不。
President Obama: Yes. 奥巴马总统：是的。
Question: We feel it’s our responsibility to make sure that people who have a criminal past, people who are mentally ill or are having a bad day don’t get possession of firearms. So we assist law enforcement all the time in the process of making sure that those things don’t change hands inside our commercial market if they shouldn’t. It’s a very serious responsibility for us, and as a group, we take it very seriously. 提问者：我们认为我们有责任确保有犯罪前科的人、有精神疾病的人或今天心情不好的人不会获得枪支。所以我们一直在协助执法部门，确保那些不该在我们的商业市场上转手的东西不会转手。这对我们来说是一项非常严肃的责任，作为一个群体，我们非常认真地对待它。
My question is around the executive order related to the investigators, the inspectors, the adding of 200 inspectors who are more on the auditing and record-keeping side. Why not add 200 ATF agents on the law enforcement side to keep the criminals and the bad guys out of the stores in the first place? 我的问题是关于与调查人员、检查员相关的行政命令，增加200名更多从事审计和记录保存工作的检查员。为什么不增加200名酒精、烟草与火器管理局的执法人员，从一开始就把罪犯和坏人挡在商店外面呢？我的意思是，在
I mean, the problem seems to me to be -- you mentioned dealers who are less responsible than others, and certainly it’s possible that those folks are out there, but if we can enforce the laws that already exist, the tens of thousands of gun laws that are on the books right now, it might create a very significant deterrent in just getting those people in the stores. 我看来问题似乎是——您提到了那些不如其他人负责任的经销商，当然那些人可能确实存在，但如果我们能执行已经存在的法律，那些现在已经在册的数万条枪支法律，可能仅仅是让那些人不敢进商店就能产生非常大的威慑作用。
Anderson Cooper: Let me also point out the number of ATF agents during your Administration has actually declined. So even if you hired 200 more -- 安德森·库珀：我还要指出的是，在您的政府任期内，酒精、烟草与火器管理局特工的数量实际上减少了。所以即使您再雇用200名——
President Obama: Yes, but not because of my budget. 奥巴马总统：是的，但不是因为我的预算。
Anderson Cooper: But even if you hired 200 more, it will get it to what it was right before you took office. 安德森·库珀：但即使您再雇用200名，也只能回到您上任前的水平。
President Obama: Absolutely. Well, look, first of all, there are a whole bunch of responsible gun dealers out there. And my hope would be that those gun dealers would support making sure that everybody is following the same rules that they are. That’s number one. 奥巴马总统：没错。嗯，听着，首先，有很多负责任的枪支经销商。我的希望是，那些枪支经销商会支持确保每个人都遵守和他们一样的规则。这是第一点。
Number two is we’re not writing a new law. Only Congress can do that. This is about enforcing existing laws, and closing what has grown into a massive loophole where a huge percentage of guns -- many of whom end up being traced to crime -- are not going through the responsible gun dealers, but are going through irresponsible folks who are not registered as doing business. And the whole goal here is to clarify and to put on notice that if you’re a business, even if you don’t have bricks and mortar, then you’re supposed to register, you’re supposed to conduct background checks. 第二点是我们不是在制定新法律。只有国会才能那样做。这是关于执行现有法律，以及堵塞一个已经演变成巨大漏洞的问题，即很大比例的枪支——其中许多最终被追踪到犯罪——没有经过负责任的枪支经销商，而是通过那些没有注册做生
So the issue is not where you do it, it’s what you’re doing. And that should not be something that threatens responsible gun dealers across the country. 意的不负责任的人。这里的全部目标是澄清并告知大家，如果你是在做生意，即使你没有实体店铺，那么你也应该注册，你应该进行背景调查。所以问题不在于你在哪里做，而在于你在做什么。这不应该是对全国负责任枪支经销商的威胁。
In terms of the ATF, it is absolutely true that the ATF budget has been shrank because -- has been shrunk -- it’s a little late -- you knew what I meant -- and part of it is because the politicizing of this issue. So many in the Republican Congress feel as if the ATF is not their friend, but their enemy. Part of the story I was telling -- 关于酒精、烟草与火器管理局，确实，酒精、烟草与火器管理局的预算被缩减了，因为——已经被缩减了——有点晚了——你知道我的意思——部分原因是这个问题被政治化了。共和党国会中的很多人觉得酒精、烟草与火器管理局不是他们的朋友，而是他们的敌人。我刚才讲的部分故事——
Anderson Cooper: You said this issue should be politicized, though. 安德森·库珀：不过您说这个问题应该被政治化。
President Obama: Well, but what I mean by that, Anderson, is, is that they have been portrayed as trying to take people’s guns away as opposed to trying to make sure that the laws are enforced. And one of the most frustrating things that I hear is when people say -- who are opposed to any further laws -- why don’t you just enforce the laws that are on the books, and those very same members of Congress then cut ATF budgets to make it impossible to enforce the law. 奥巴马总统：嗯，但我的意思是，安德森，他们被描绘成试图夺走人们的枪支，而不是试图确保法律得到执行。我听到的最令人沮丧的事情之一是，当那些反对任何进一步法律的人说——你为什么不执行现有的法律呢，而正是那些国会议员削减了酒精、烟草与火器管理局的预算，让执法变得不可能。
And by the way, the ATF is a law enforcement agency working under the FBI that is doing enormous work in going after criminals and drug cartels, and have a pretty dangerous job. So it’s not as if doing background checks or auditing gun sales is all that they’re doing. 顺便说一句，酒精、烟草与火器管理局是联邦调查局下属的一个执法机构，他们在追捕罪犯和贩毒集团方面做了大量工作，而且工作相当危险。所以他们不是只做背景调查或审计枪支销售。
Part of my proposal is also developing better technologies so that we can do tracing of shells when a crime is committed in order to figure out who exactly are the perpetrators of the crime and where did they obtain the weapon. So there’s a whole bunch of other elements to this that are going to be important. But my hope is, is that responsible gun dealers like yourself and your organization are going to be supportive of this proposal, because it should actually help push away unscrupulous dealers and that means more customers for you guys. 我的提案的一部分还包括开发更好的技术，这样我们就能在犯罪发生时追踪弹壳，以找出到底谁是罪犯，他们从哪里获得武器。所以还有很多其他重要的因素。但我的希望是，像你这样负责任的枪支经销商和你们的组织会支持这项提案，因为它实际上应该有助于排挤无良经销商，这对你们来说意味着更多的客户。
Anderson Cooper: I want to bring in Mark Kelly. As you know, a former astronaut, husband of former Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, who we’re proud to say is here tonight. Five years ago this week in Tucson, Arizona, Congresswoman Giffords was shot. Six others were killed. Captain, your question? 安德森·库珀：我想请马克·凯利提问。如您所知，他是前宇航员，也是前国会女议员加布里埃尔·吉福兹的丈夫，我们很荣幸她今晚也在这里。五年前的这个星期，在亚利桑那州图森，吉福兹议员被枪击。另有六人遇难。机长，你的问题是什么？
Question: Well, thank you for being here, Mr. President. As you know, Gabby and I are both gun owners. We take gun ownership very seriously and really think about the voices of responsible gun owners in this debate. But I want to follow up to something Father Pfleger said and your answer to his question, and it’s about expanded background checks. 提问者：感谢您来这里，总统先生。如您所知，加比和我都是枪支拥有者。我们非常认真地对待枪支拥有权，也真正重视负责任枪支拥有者在这场辩论中的声音。但我想跟进普弗莱格神父说的一些话以及您对他问题的回答，是关于扩大背景调查的。通常，在关于将背景调查扩大到更多枪支销售的辩
Often, what you hear in the debate of expanding background checks to more gun sales -- and, as you know, Gabby and I are 100 percent behind the concept of somebody getting a background check before buying a gun -- but when we testified in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee, we heard not only from the gun lobby but from United States senators that expanding background checks will -- not may -- will lead to a registry, which will lead to confiscation, which will lead to a tyrannical government. 论中你听到的——而且如您所知，加比和我百分之百支持在购买枪支前进行背景调查这个理念——但当我们在参议院司法委员会作证时，我们不仅从枪支游说团体那里听到，也从美国参议员那里听到，扩大背景调查将——不是可能——将导致登记造册，而登记造册将导致没收，没收将导致暴政政府。
So I would like you to explain, with 350 million guns in 65 million places, households, from Key West to Alaska -- 350 million objects in 65 million places -- if the federal government wanted to confiscate those objects, how would they do that? 所以我想请您解释一下，在6500万个地方、家庭中有3.5亿支枪，从基韦斯特到阿拉斯加——3.5亿件物品分布在6500万个地方——如果联邦政府想没收这些物品，他们怎么做到？
President Obama: Well, look, first of all, every time I see Gabby, I’m just so thrilled because I visited her in the hospital, and, as I mentioned I think in the speech in the White House, as we left the hospital then to go to a memorial service, we got word that Gabby had opened her eyes for the first time. And we did not think that she was going to be here, and she is. And Mark has just been extraordinary. And, by the way, Mark’s twin brother is up in space right now and is breaking the record for the longest continuous orbiting of the planet, which is pretty impressive stuff. 奥巴马总统：嗯，听着，首先，每次我见到加比，我都特别激动，因为我去医院看过她，而且，我想我在白宫的演讲中提到过，当时我们离开医院去参加追思仪式，我们得到消息说加比第一次睁开了眼睛。我们当时以为她挺不过来了，但她做到了。马克也一直非常了不起。顺便说一句，马克的双胞胎兄弟现在正在太空，正在打破绕地球连续轨道飞行时间最长的纪录，这相当了不起。
What I think Mark is alluding to is what I said earlier -- this notion of a conspiracy out there, and it gets wrapped up in concerns about the federal government. Now, there’s a long history of that. That’s in our DNA. The United States was born suspicious of some distant authority. 我认为马克所指的就是我之前说过的——那种关于阴谋的说法，它被包裹在对联邦政府的担忧之中。这有很长的历史。这刻在我们的DNA里。美国诞生时就对遥远的权威抱有怀疑。
Anderson Cooper: But let me just jump in -- is it fair to call it a conspiracy? I mean, there’s a lot of people who really believe this deeply -- that they just don’t trust you. 安德森·库珀：但让我插一句——称之为阴谋公平吗？我的意思是，很多人真的深信不疑——他们就是不信任您。
President Obama: I’m sorry, Cooper, yes it is fair to call it a conspiracy. What are you saying? Are you suggesting that the notion that we are creating a plot to take everybody’s guns away so that we can impose martial law -- 奥巴马总统：抱歉，库珀，是的，称之为阴谋是公平的。你在说什么？你是在暗示那种认为我们在策划夺走所有人的枪以便实施戒严令的说法——
Anderson Cooper: Not everybody, but there is certainly a lot of people -- 安德森·库珀：不是所有人，但确实有很多人——
President Obama: -- is a conspiracy? Yes, that is a conspiracy. I would hope that you would agree with that. Is that controversial except on some websites around the country? 奥巴马总统：——是一种阴谋？是的，这就是阴谋。我希望你会同意这一点。难道除了在这个国家的某些网站上，这还有什么争议吗？
Anderson Cooper: There are certainly a lot of people who just have a fundamental distrust that you do not want to get -- go further and further and further down this road. 安德森·库珀：确实有很多人只是有一种根本的不信任，认为您不想——在这条路上越走越远。
President Obama: Look, I mean, I’m only going to be here for another year. I don’t know -- when would I have started on this enterprise, right? 奥巴马总统：听着，我的意思是，我只会在这里再待一年。我不知道——我什么时候开始干这事的，对吧？
I come from the state of Illinois, which -- we’ve been talking about Chicago, but downstate Illinois is closer to Kentucky than it is to Chicago. And everybody hunts down there and a lot of folks own guns. And so this is not, like, alien territory to me. I’ve got a lot of friends like Mark who are hunters. I just came back from Alaska, where I ate a moose that had just been shot -- and it was pretty good. 我来自伊利诺伊州，我们一直在谈论芝加哥，但伊利诺伊州南部离肯塔基州比离芝加哥更近。那里每个人都打猎，很多人都有枪。所以这对我来说不是什么陌生的领域。我有很多像马克这样的朋友都是猎人。我刚从阿拉斯加回来，在那里我吃了一头刚被射杀的驼鹿——味道还不错。
So, yes, it is a false notion that I believe is circulated for either political reasons or commercial reasons in order to prevent a coming together among people of goodwill to develop common-sense rules that will make us safer while preserving the Second Amendment. 所以，是的，这是一种错误的观念，我认为它是出于政治或商业目的而传播的，目的是阻止善良的人们走到一起，制定常识性的规则，在保护第二修正案的同时让我们更安全。
And the notion that we can’t agree on some things while not agreeing on others and the reason for that is because, well, the President secretly wants to X would mean that we’d be paralyzed about doing everything. I mean, maybe when I proposed to make sure that unsafe drugs are taken off the market that, secretly, I’m trying to control the entire drug industry, or take people’s drugs away. But probably not. What’s more likely is I just want to make sure that people are not dying by taking bad drugs. 那种认为我们不能在某些事情上达成一致而在另一些事情上存在分歧，而原因是因为总统秘密地想要做某事，这种想法意味着我们做任何事都会陷入瘫痪。我的意思是，也许当我提议确保不安全的药品退出市场时，我是在秘密地试图控制整个药品行业，或者夺走人们的药品。但可能不是。更有可能的是我只是想确保人们不会因为服用劣质药品而死亡。
Anderson Cooper: You wrote an op-ed that just got published. A lot of people probably have not read it yet. One of the things you say in it is that you are not going to campaign for, vote for any candidate, regardless of what party they’re in, if they do not support common-sense gun reform. 安德森·库珀：您写了一篇专栏文章，刚刚发表。很多人可能还没读过。您在其中说的一件事是，您不会为任何不支持常识性枪支改革的候选人助选，也不会投票给他们，无论他们属于哪个政党。
President Obama: Yes. I meant what I said. And the reason I said that is this. The majority of people in this country are a lot more sensible than what you see in Washington, and the reason that Washington doesn’t work well in part is because the loudest, shrillest voices, the least compromising, the most powerful or those with the most money have the most influence. 奥巴马总统：是的。我说到做到。我这么说的原因是这样的。这个国家的大多数人比你在华盛顿看到的要理智得多，而华盛顿运转不佳的部分原因是，那些声音最大、最尖锐、最不肯妥协、最有权势或最有钱的人影响力最大。
And the way Washington changes is when people vote. And the way we break the deadlock on this issue is when Congress does not have just a stranglehold on this debate -- or, excuse me -- the NRA does not have a stranglehold on Congress in this debate -- but it is balanced by a whole bunch of folks -- gun owners, law enforcement, the majority of the American people -- when their voices are heard, then things get done. 华盛顿改变的方式是当人们投票的时候。我们在这个问题上打破僵局的方式是，当国会不再仅仅——或者，抱歉——全国步枪协会不再在这场辩论中束缚国会——而是由一大群人——枪支拥有者、执法部门、大多数美国人民——来平衡，当他们的声音被听到时，事情就会办成。
The proposals that we’ve put forward are a version -- a lawful, more narrow version -- of what was proposed by Joe Manchin and Senator Toomey of Pennsylvania, a Republican and a Democrat, both of whom get straight-A scores from the NRA. And somehow, after Newtown, that did not pass the Senate. The majority of senators wanted it, but 90 percent of Republicans voted against it. And I’ll be honest with you, 90 percent of those senators didn’t disagree with the proposal, but they were fearful that it was going to affect them during the election. 我们提出的提案是宾夕法尼亚州参议员乔·曼钦和图米提出的方案的一个版本——一个更合法、更狭窄的版本——一位民主党人和一位共和党人，两人都获得了全国步枪协会的A级评分。不知怎么的，在纽敦事件之后，那个方案没有在参议院通过。大多数参议员都支持，但百分之九十的共和党人投了反对票。老实跟你说，那些参议员中有百分之九十并不是不同意这个提案，而是他们担心这会在选举中影响他们。
So all I’m saying is, is that this debate will not change and get balanced out so that lawful gun owners and their Second Amendment rights are protected, but we’re also creating a pathway towards a safer set of communities -- it’s not going to change until those who are concerned about violence are not as focused and disciplined during election time as those who are. And I’m going to throw my shoulders behind folks who want to actually solve problems instead of just getting a high score from an interest group. 所以我想说的是，这场辩论不会改变，不会变得平衡，以至于合法的枪支拥有者和他们的第二修正案权利得到保护，同时我们也在为更安全的社区创造一条道路——这种情况不会改变，直到那些关心暴力问题的人在选举时不像那些反对者那样专注和自律。我会全力支持那些真正想解决问题的人，而不是那些只想从利益集团那里获得高分的人。
Anderson Cooper: We have time for one more question. And we talked about Chicago a little bit. We haven't really heard from young people tonight -- no offense to those who have spoken. I’m in the same category as you all. Sorry, Father. 安德森·库珀：我们还有时间再提一个问题。我们之前谈到了芝加哥。今晚我们还没有真正听到年轻人的声音——对已经发言的人没有冒犯的意思。我和你们都属于同一类。抱歉，神父。
President Obama: You’re a kid. 奥巴马总统：你还是个孩子。
Anderson Cooper: There’s a lot of kids, as you know, growing up in Chicago, fearful of walking to school, fearful of coming home from school. A lot of kids have been killed on buses. There’s a lot of moms of kids who have been killed in the streets of Chicago. And I want you to meet Trey Bosley. He’s 18 years old. He’s a high school student. And his brother Terrell was shot and killed nearly 10 years ago while he was helping a friend in a church parking lot. Terrell would have turned 28 years old on this Tuesday. What’s your question, Trey? 安德森·库珀：你知道，有很多孩子在芝加哥长大，害怕走路上学，害怕放学回家。很多孩子在公交车上被杀。有很多孩子的母亲在芝加哥的街头失去了孩子。我想让你认识特雷·博斯利。他18岁，是一名高中生。他的哥哥特雷尔大约十年前在教堂停车场帮助朋友时被枪杀。特雷尔本周二本该满28岁。你的问题是什么，特雷？
Question: As you said, I lost my brother a few years ago -- well, 10 years ago. And I’ve also lost a countless amount of family members and friends to gun violence, as well. And just growing up as a young black teen in Chicago, where you’re surrounded by not only just gun violence but police brutality, as well, most of aren’t thinking of our life on a long-term scale. Most of us are either thinking day to day, hour to hour -- for some, even minute to minute. 提问者：正如您所说，我几年前失去了哥哥——嗯，十年前了。我还因为枪支暴力失去了无数的家人和朋友。作为一个在芝加哥长大的黑人青少年，你不仅被枪支暴力包围，还被警察暴行包围，我们大多数人都不会从长远角度考虑我们的生活。我们大
I want to thank you for your stand against gun violence for not only the victims of gun violence, but those on the verge of being victims of gun violence. And my question to you is, what is your advice to those youth growing up surrounded by poverty and gun violence? 多数人要么按天想，按小时想——对有些人来说，甚至按分钟想。我要感谢您反对枪支暴力的立场，不仅是为了枪支暴力的受害者，也是为了那些即将成为枪支暴力受害者的人。我对您的问题是，您对那些在贫困和枪支暴力中长大的年轻人有什么建议？
President Obama: Well, first of all, Trey, I couldn’t be prouder of you. And I know -- is that your momma next to you? I know she’s proud of you right now. So good job, Mom. When I see you, Terrell, I think I about my own -- 奥巴马总统：嗯，首先，特雷，我为你感到无比骄傲。我知道——你旁边是你妈妈吗？我知道她现在为你感到骄傲。所以干得好，妈妈。当我看到你，特雷尔，我想到我自己的——
Anderson Cooper: Trey. 安德森·库珀：是特雷。
President Obama: Excuse me -- Trey. When I see you, I think about my own youth, because I wasn’t that different from you. Probably not as articulate and maybe more of a goof-off. But the main difference was I lived in a more forgiving environment. If I screwed up, I wasn’t at risk of getting shot. I’d get a second chance. There were a bunch of folks who were looking out for me, and there weren’t a lot of guns on the streets. And that’s how all kids should be growing up, wherever they live. 奥巴马总统：抱歉——特雷。当我看到你时，我想到了我自己的年轻时代，因为我和你没有太大不同。可能没你这么能言善辩，也许更调皮一些。但主要的区别是我生活在一个更宽容的环境里。如果我搞砸了，我不会有被枪击的风险。我会得到第二次机会。有很多人在照顾我，街上也没有很多枪。所有的孩子都应该这样长大，无论他们住在哪里。
My advice to you is to continue to be an outstanding role model for the young ones who are coming up behind you. Keep listening to your mom. Work hard and get an education. Understand that high school and whatever peer pressure or restrictions you’re under right now won’t matter by the time you’re a full adult, and what matters is your future. But what I also want to say to you is, is that you’re really important to the future of this country. 我给你的建议是，继续成为你身后年轻一代的杰出榜样。继续听你妈妈的话。努力学习，接受教育。要明白，高中以及你现在面临的任何同龄人的压力或限制，等你完全成年后都不重要了，重要的是你的未来。但我还想对你说的是，你对这个国家的未来真的很重要。
And I think it is critical in this debate to understand that it’s not just inner-city kids who are at risk in these situations. Out of the 30,000 deaths due to gun violence, about two-thirds of them are actually suicides. That’s part of the reason why we are investing more heavily also in mental health under my proposal. 我认为在这场辩论中理解这一点至关重要：在这些情况下，不仅仅是市中心的孩子处于危险之中。在三万起枪支暴力死亡中，大约三分之二实际上是自杀。这也是为什么根据我的提案，我们也在心理健康方面投入更多的部分原因。
But while the majority of victims of gun homicide are black or Hispanic, the overwhelming majority of suicides by young people are white. And those, too, are tragedies. Those, too, are preventable. I’m the father of two outstanding young women, but being a teenager is tough. And we all remember the times where you get confused, you’re angry, and then the next thing you know, if you have access to a firearm what kind of bad decisions you might make. So those are deaths we also want to prevent. 但是，虽然枪支凶杀案的大多数受害者是黑人或西班牙裔，但年轻人自杀的绝大多数是白人。那些也是悲剧。那些也是可以预防的。我是两个优秀年轻女性的父亲，但做青少年很难。我们都记得那些你感到困惑、愤怒的时刻，然后一转眼，如果你能接触到枪支，你可能会做出多么糟糕的决定。所以那些也是我们想要阻止的死亡。
Accidental shootings are also deaths we want to prevent. And we’re not going to prevent all of them. But we can do better. We’re not going to, through this initiative alone, solve all the problems of inner-city crime. Some of that, as I said, has to do with investing in these communities and making sure there’s good education and jobs and opportunity -- and great parents, and moral responsibility, and ethical behavior, and instilling that in our kids -- that’s going to be important. 意外枪击也是我们想要阻止的死亡。我们不会阻止所有这些。但我们可以做得更好。我们不会，仅仅通过这项举措，就解决市中心犯罪的所有问题。其中一些，正如我所说，与投资这些社区有关，确保有良好的教育、就业和机会——还有优秀的父母、道德责任、伦理行为，以及把这些灌输给我们的孩子——这些都很重要。
So this is not a proposal to solve every problem. It’s a modest way of us getting started on improving the prospects of young men and young women like you, the same way we try to improve every other aspect of our lives. That’s all it is. 所以这不是一个解决所有问题的方案。这是我们开始改善像你这样的年轻男女前景的一种适度方式，就像我们努力改善生活的其他方方面面一样。仅此而已。
And if we get started -- as I said before, it used to be people didn’t wear seatbelts, didn’t have airbags. It takes 20, 30 years, but you look and then you realize all these amazing lives of young people like this who are contributing to our society because we came together in a practical way, looking at evidence, looking at data, and figured out how can we make that work better. 如果我们开始行动——就像我之前说的，过去人们不系安全带，没有安全气囊。这需要二、三十年的时间，但你回头看，就会意识到所有这些年轻人的精彩生命，他们正在为社会做贡献，因为我们以务实的方式走到了一起，研究证据，研究数据，找出了如何让情况变得更好。
Right now, Congress prohibits us even studying through the Center for Disease Control ways in which we could reduce gun violence. That’s how crazy this thing has become. Let’s at least figure out what works. And some of the proposals that I’m making may turn out are not as effective as others. But at least let’s figure it out, let’s try some things. 现在，国会甚至禁止我们通过疾病控制中心研究减少枪支暴力的方法。这就是这件事变得有多疯狂。至少让我们弄清楚什么有效。我提出的一些提案可能最终效果不如其他的。但至少让我们弄清楚，让我们尝试一些
Let’s not just assume that -- every few weeks there’s a mass shooting that gets publicity, every few months there’s one that gets national publicity, every day there are a whole bunch of folks shot on streets around the country that we don’t even hear about. That is not something that we can be satisfied with. 东西。让我们不要只是假设——每隔几周就有一起大规模枪击事件获得关注，每隔几个月就有一起获得全国关注，而每天全国各地的街道上都有一大堆人被枪击，我们甚至都没听说过。这不是我们可以满足的事情。
And part of my faith and hope in America is just that -- not that we achieve a perfect union, but that we get better. And we can do better than we’re doing right now if we come together. 我对美国的信念和希望就是——不是我们能建立一个完美的联邦，而是我们会不断进步。如果我们走到一起，我们可以比现在做得更好。
Thank you. 谢谢大家。
Anderson Cooper: Mr. President, thank you very much for your time. 安德森·库珀：总统先生，非常感谢您抽出时间。
President Obama: Appreciate it very much. 奥巴马总统：非常感谢。