鲁健：你是一个特别追求完美的人吗？属于完美主义者？ Lu Jian: Are you someone who especially strives for perfection? Would you call yourself a perfectionist?
雷军：我觉得追求完美这个性格有好的一面，也有不好的一面。你会理解成对周边的人要求会很苛刻，大家会觉得你不通人情，觉得你这人怎么这么怪。 Lei Jun: I think striving for perfection has a good side and a bad side. That can mean being very demanding of the people around you. They may think you are insensitive or wonder why you are so difficult.
鲁健：你是吗？ Lu Jian: Are you like that?
雷军：我小时候是。所以有时候，你初步看到我的时候，会觉得我好像很容易合作、很包容，这都是后来我学会的。但我骨子里是一个特别较真的人。 Lei Jun: I was when I was young. When people first meet me now, they may find me easy to work with and very tolerant. I learned all of that later. Deep down, however, I am extremely exacting.
雷军：后来我发现，因为我是一个程序员，在程序员的世界里面只有0和1，只有对和不对，非黑即白。其实这一类人跟这个世界很难融入，它要么对，要么不对。后来我说服自己，这个世界是模拟信号，它没有0和1，只有偏0和偏1。所以我就说服自己，眼睛里要能揉沙子，要能很包容地看待这个世界，没有绝对的正确和绝对的错误。我花了很多时间改变自己。 Lei Jun: I later realized that, because I was a programmer, my world contained only zero and one, right and wrong, black and white. People like that have great difficulty fitting into the world: something is either right or wrong. I eventually persuaded myself that the world is an analog signal. It has no zero and one, only values closer to zero or closer to one. I told myself that I had to accept imperfections and view the world with tolerance. There is no absolute right or absolute wrong. I spent a great deal of time changing myself.
鲁健：是什么样的一种动机促使你去改变自己的性格？ Lu Jian: What motivated you to change your personality?
雷军：如果你不改变的话，你会在这个现实世界里面撞得头破血流。 Lei Jun: If you do not change, the real world will batter you badly.
雷军（节目片段）：我过去二十多年用了六七十部手机。用互联网的方式来销售，如果没有基本功，谈“飞猪”理论的话，那真的是机会主义者。只要米粉喜欢，就是我们的正业。永远相信美好的事情即将发生。我们只有做出世界级品质，才有机会生存下去。 Lei Jun (archival clip): Over the past twenty years, I have used sixty or seventy mobile phones. If you sell through the internet but lack the fundamental skills, then talking about the "flying pig" theory really does make you an opportunist. Whatever Mi Fans like is our proper business. Always believe that something wonderful is about to happen. Only by achieving world-class quality do we have a chance to survive.
鲁健：这后面就是九号平衡车？ Lu Jian: Is that the Ninebot self-balancing scooter behind us?
鲁健：对，这是平衡车的轮子，竖起来以后就是平衡车。 雷军：平时大家玩的平衡车是双轮站着玩的，把这个双轮的平衡车放下来，再买这么一个套件，把前轮装好，就变成了卡丁车。 Lei Jun: Yes. Those are its wheels. Stand it upright and it is a self-balancing scooter. The usual version has two wheels and is ridden standing up. Lay it down, buy this kit, attach the front wheel, and it becomes a go-kart.
鲁健：这是变形金刚啊。这个是绝对不能上路的，主要是玩具。来，那我俩试一下，你教一下我。我家里买了平衡车，但是还真没买过这个“变形金刚”。 Lu Jian: It is a Transformer. It absolutely cannot be driven on the road. It is mainly a toy. Come on, let us try it. Teach me. I bought a self-balancing scooter for my family, but never this "Transformer."
雷军：这是刹车，右脚是油门。 Lei Jun: This is the brake, and the right pedal is the accelerator.
鲁健：像这样的小米生态链企业，咱们有多少家？ Lu Jian: How many Xiaomi ecosystem companies are there like this one?
雷军：有一百二十家左右。 Lei Jun: Around 120.
鲁健：一百二十家？ Lu Jian: One hundred and twenty?
雷军：已经上市的有三家。因为小米的整个生态非常完善，光靠小米一家做不到，所以小米帮助了一百多个创业者创办了各自的企业，这些年发展得都不错。 Lei Jun: Three of them are already publicly listed. Xiaomi's ecosystem is highly developed, and Xiaomi could not build it alone. We therefore helped more than one hundred entrepreneurs establish their own companies, and they have done well in recent years.
鲁健：这都是您个人存的吧？不是每一个都用过吧，应该不可能吧？ Lu Jian: Are all these from your personal collection? You cannot have used every one of them, surely.
雷军：这里每一个手机我都用过，真的每一个都用过。 Lei Jun: I have used every phone here, truly every one.
鲁健：你有没有想过，今后手机可能会变成什么样？ Lu Jian: Have you thought about what phones might become in the future?
雷军：我觉得到今天为止，手机的形式基本已经固定，但是手机的内涵会进一步增长，比如它的计算能力、相机拍照的实力。终有一天，手机会变成人的亲密伴侣。未来世界是以手机为中心的，我们要用手机连接所有设备。带来最大的好处是什么？你会发现，智能家居会让你的生活产生翻天覆地的变化。其实这一点在一点一点地改进。 Lei Jun: By now, I think the physical form of the phone is largely fixed, but what it contains will keep expanding, including its computing power and the strength of its camera. One day, the phone will become a close companion to each person. The future world will be centered on the phone, and we will use it to connect every device. What is the greatest benefit? You will discover that the smart home brings earthshaking changes to your life. That transformation is already advancing little by little.
鲁健：小米的基因里面，你觉得有颠覆性的东西吗？ Lu Jian: Do you think Xiaomi has anything disruptive in its DNA?
雷军：看怎么看。我觉得毫无疑问，小米模式在过去十年对整个中国制造业、对整个中国产业的推动，是无可置疑的。 Lei Jun: It depends on how you look at it. Without question, over the past decade the Xiaomi model has helped propel Chinese manufacturing and Chinese industry as a whole.
鲁健：但是我听说你好像不喜欢别人称呼你为“雷布斯”，是吧？ Lu Jian: But I have heard that you do not like people calling you "Rebs," comparing you to Steve Jobs. Is that right?
雷军：说实话，我觉得乔布斯对整个人类都有巨大的影响，很多人也都是乔布斯的粉丝。其实崇拜乔布斯，并不一定要成为第二个乔布斯。而且我觉得，在今天的创业圈里，我有时候经常说，很多人没有乔布斯的命，但有“乔布斯病”，以为乔布斯只是单纯地追求极致。 Lei Jun: Honestly, I think Steve Jobs had an enormous impact on all humanity, and many people are his admirers. Admiring Jobs does not mean that you must become a second Steve Jobs. I often say that many people in today's startup world do not have Jobs's destiny, but they suffer from "Jobs syndrome." They think Jobs did nothing more than pursue perfection.
雷军：其实做产品，还是追求极致、用户需求和工业实践之间的妥协。所以怎么能做一个成功的产品？我觉得我们要学乔布斯的精神，但是乔布斯是独一无二的，其实很难复制。 Lei Jun: In reality, building a product means balancing the pursuit of perfection with user needs and industrial realities. How do you create a successful product? We should learn from Jobs's spirit, but Steve Jobs was unique and is very difficult to replicate.
雷军：我在初中和高中的时候就是“电子发烧友”，会装收音机。上大学学的是软件，接着二十多年没有碰过任何硬件，但是我个人一直是一个电子发烧友，所以我以前也经常拆手机、修手机玩儿。 Lei Jun: In junior high and high school, I was an electronics enthusiast and assembled radios. I studied software at university and then did not touch any hardware for more than twenty years, but I remained an electronics enthusiast. I often took phones apart and repaired them for fun.
鲁健：你把拆手机、修手机当玩儿？ Lu Jian: You treated dismantling and repairing phones as entertainment?
雷军：所以我之所以能做硬件，他们说你为什么能做硬件，其实我觉得爱好很重要。 Lei Jun: People ask why I was able to make hardware. I think interests are very important.
雷军：现在的年轻人有更广泛的爱好，说不定以后什么时候就用上了。到了我四十岁，再回过来做硬件的时候，我有极其浓厚的兴趣。 Lei Jun: Young people today should cultivate broad interests because they may unexpectedly prove useful later. When I returned to hardware at the age of forty, I had an exceptionally strong interest in it.
鲁健：那你最早用的是哪个手机？ Lu Jian: What was the first mobile phone you used?
雷军：我用的第一部手机是摩托罗拉的大哥大。三十年前，我们公司有一部大哥大，大家小伙伴们都爱不释手。 Lei Jun: My first was a Motorola brick phone. Thirty years ago, our company owned one, and all the young employees loved it.
鲁健：三十年前，你应该刚刚从武汉大学毕业？ Lu Jian: Thirty years ago, you must have just graduated from Wuhan University.
雷军：我大学毕业后到航天部的一个研究所工作了半年，在一次展会上认识求伯君以后，求伯君就劝我跟他一起干。1991年年底，我不干研究所的工作了，去一个民营企业干，这对当时的年轻人来说还是挺难的。 Lei Jun: After graduation, I worked for six months at a research institute under the Ministry of Aerospace Industry. I met Qiu Bojun at an exhibition, and he persuaded me to join him. At the end of 1991, I left the research institute for a private company. That was still a difficult decision for a young person at the time.
鲁健：我就特别想问，求伯君到底劝了你一天，怎么劝的，能让你做出这么重大的转变？ Lu Jian: I especially want to ask how Qiu Bojun spent a day persuading you. What did he say that led you to make such a major change?
雷军：因为当时我特别喜欢写程序。看到求伯君因为写程序，写出像WPS这样的作品以后取得这么大的成就，我就在想，每个年轻人心里都有很多梦想，我也去试一试，也许我也能做成“求伯君第二”。 Lei Jun: I loved programming at the time. I saw that Qiu Bojun had written a program like WPS and achieved so much with it. I thought that every young person carries many dreams, so I should give it a try. Perhaps I could become "the second Qiu Bojun."
雷军：当时我以为金山是个很大的公司，等我去了以后，发现我是第六个人。 Lei Jun: I assumed Kingsoft was a very large company. When I arrived, I discovered that I was its sixth employee.
鲁健：就像打篮球一样的“第六人”。 Lu Jian: The "sixth man," as in basketball.
雷军：对，第六个人。干了半年以后，我就成了当时的副总经理，拿上大哥大了。所以当时我们只要出去吃饭，一定得把大哥大带上。 Lei Jun: Yes, the sixth person. After six months, I became a vice president and got to carry the brick phone. Whenever we went out for a meal, we had to bring the brick phone.
鲁健：那个时候买得起、用不起，大家还舍不得。有的人凑点钱能买一部大哥大，关键是话费特别贵。 Lu Jian: At that time, people might afford to buy one but could not afford to use it. Some pooled their money to buy one, but the calling charges were extremely high.
雷军：其实当年不仅仅话费贵，就是有线电话，我记得当年家里和办公室装一部有线电话，光装机费就得五千块钱。当年的五千是很多很多钱。所以一想，这三十年通讯技术的进步、智能手机的大规模普及，真的想不到。 Lei Jun: It was not only mobile calls that were expensive. I remember that installing a landline at home or in the office cost five thousand yuan. Five thousand yuan was an enormous amount then. Looking back, the progress in communications technology over these thirty years and the mass adoption of smartphones were truly unimaginable.
鲁健：你身材管理得非常好。我知道你特别喜欢滑雪，应该是忠实的滑雪迷。 Lu Jian: You keep yourself in excellent shape. I know you love skiing and must be a devoted skier.
雷军：滑了十五年。在全球各个雪场，很多个雪场都去滑过雪。 Lei Jun: I have skied for fifteen years. At ski resorts around the world, I have skied at many resorts.
鲁健：全球啊？那应该去过很多国家，像德国、瑞士。 Lu Jian: Around the world? Then you must have visited many countries, such as Germany and Switzerland.
雷军：对，基本都去过。 Lei Jun: Yes, I have been to most of them.
鲁健：那你每年抽出多少时间去？ Lu Jian: How much time do you set aside each year?
雷军：主要是比较忙，一般都是春节找个全球比较好的雪场去滑雪。 Lei Jun: I am usually very busy, so I generally find a good resort somewhere in the world during the Spring Festival holiday.
鲁健：一般去多长时间？ Lu Jian: How long do you go for?
雷军：一般八到九天。 Lei Jun: Usually eight or nine days.
鲁健：我这方面特别差。我喜欢踢足球，但滑雪，我记得在初级道上直接就滚下去了。 Lu Jian: I am particularly bad at it. I like playing football, but when I tried skiing, I remember rolling straight down the beginner slope.
雷军：现在喜欢滑雪的人很多，滑雪很容易上瘾，一旦学会以后会很容易上瘾。 Lei Jun: Many people like skiing now. It is easy to become addicted once you learn.
鲁健：那比如滑雪或者骑自行车的时候，一般会想什么吗？ Lu Jian: When you ski or ride a bicycle, what do you usually think about?
雷军：说实话，我觉得有时候当你在运动中，一旦进去以后，你是什么都不想的。 鲁健：我觉得作为企业家，得有一点放空自己的时间，因为平时工作压力很大。看你今天都有点感冒。平时你熬夜吗？你应该不是一个熬夜的人。 Lei Jun: Honestly, once you become immersed in exercise, you think about nothing. An entrepreneur probably needs some time to empty the mind because our normal work is very stressful. Lu Jian: You seem to have a bit of a cold today. Do you usually stay up late? You do not strike me as someone who would.
雷军：其实睡觉都比较晚，一般凌晨一两点。这个互联网技术行业，凌晨一两点是大家惯常的。 Lei Jun: I actually go to bed quite late, usually at one or two in the morning. In the internet and technology industry, that is normal.
鲁健：你身体保持得还挺好。 Lu Jian: You still seem to stay quite healthy.
雷军：需要运动。 Lei Jun: Exercise is necessary.
鲁健：前两天我看你写的微博挺有意思，你引用王国维的“三重境界”，下面好多网友都在问，那你现在到第几重境界了？ Lu Jian: A few days ago, I saw an interesting post you wrote on Weibo. You quoted Wang Guowei's "three stages," and many people asked which stage you have reached.
雷军：我觉得我还在追寻的过程之中， Lei Jun: I think I am still in the process of seeking.
鲁健：“衣带渐宽终不悔，为伊消得人憔悴”。什么时候到“蓦然回首，那人却在灯火阑珊处”？ Lu Jian: "My clothes grow loose, yet I have no regrets, for her I grow worn and pale." When will you reach the stage of "suddenly turning back to find her there where the lantern lights are dim"?
雷军：我觉得可能当“小米模式”真正被全世界所接受的时候。因为今天刚干了十年，还有很多人对我们不太理解。完全理解小米不是一件很容易的事情。 Lei Jun: Perhaps when the Xiaomi model is truly accepted worldwide. We have only been working for ten years, and many people still do not understand us. Fully understanding Xiaomi is not easy.
鲁健：好像经常有人爱把小米和苹果对比。 Lu Jian: People often like to compare Xiaomi with Apple.
雷军：我们对小米有很多很多的误解。我觉得有一天大家完全了解小米以后，可能就理解小米到底在追求一件什么样伟大的事情。我希望通过自己的努力，让全世界每个人都能公平地享受科技带来的美好生活。我们一直强调，我们跟用户之间是朋友式的关系，怎么能够把用户拉进来，跟我们一起把这些产品做好，这是小米孜孜不倦在追求的东西。 Lei Jun: There are many, many misconceptions about Xiaomi. I think that once people fully understand Xiaomi, they may understand the great undertaking we are pursuing. Through our own efforts, I hope everyone in the world can enjoy, on an equal basis, the better life that technology brings. We consistently emphasize a relationship with users that is like friendship. We want to bring users in and make these products together with them. That is what Xiaomi tirelessly pursues.
雷军：为什么小米作为一个外行，能在这个领域里面干到世界级？大家看到的可能更多是小米这个不好、那个不好，但是我们选择的这个行业太难。大家动不动就拿华为，苹果跟你比，你能理解吗？我们有两个好朋友，都很强大。 Lei Jun: How did Xiaomi, an outsider, reach a world-class level in this field? People may notice more of what Xiaomi does poorly, but the industry we chose is extraordinarily difficult. People constantly compare you with Huawei. Can you understand that? We have two good friends, and both are very strong.
鲁健：没错。 Lu Jian: Exactly.
雷军：所以比较起来，小米还是很稚嫩，还需要一点时间。我跟他们说，要有耐心。 Lei Jun: By comparison, Xiaomi is still immature and needs more time. I tell people to be patient.
旁白：2018年7月9日，小米在香港交易所首次公开募股。八年前，雷军有一个疯狂的想法：用互联网方式做手机，提升中国产品的全球形象，造福全球每一个人。信息交互、知识分享的互联网思维正在改变中国制造业。在市场大环境下，小米集团的智能手机出货量逆势增长，进入全球前四；在五十个国家和地区，手机进入市场前五位。 Narrator: On July 9, 2018, Xiaomi completed its initial public offering on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange. Eight years earlier, Lei Jun had a bold idea: make phones through an internet-based model, improve the global image of Chinese products, and benefit everyone in the world. Internet thinking built around information exchange and knowledge sharing was changing Chinese manufacturing. Despite the broader market environment, Xiaomi's smartphone shipments grew against the trend and entered the global top four. Its phones ranked among the top five in fifty countries and regions.
鲁健：现在小米应该有一半的收入来自国际市场。我们经常说，外部市场面临的不确定性很大，尤其是2020年，有些时候对企业来讲可能是灭顶之灾。有没有担心过？ Lei Jun: International markets now account for about half of Xiaomi's revenue. We often say that overseas markets involve great uncertainty. Especially in 2020, some events could have been disastrous for a company. Were you ever worried?
雷军：有。我们的解决方案叫“行稳致远”，就是充分考虑风险，而且稳扎稳打。我觉得在全球市场里面，要推动人类社会文明的进步，我们一定要用包容的心态来看待今天这个复杂的世界。 Lei Jun: Yes. Our solution is "move steadily to go far": fully account for risk and advance in a steady, deliberate way. In global markets, if we want to help advance human civilization, we must view today's complex world with an inclusive attitude.
鲁健：“行稳致远”是你的个人哲学吗？因为你给我的感觉就是特别稳的一个人。 Lu Jian: Is "move steadily to go far" your personal philosophy? You strike me as an especially steady person.
雷军：说实话，很多人对我的评价是极端两面的，一种说我特别稳重，一种说我特别冒进。 Lei Jun: Honestly, people's assessments of me are divided between two extremes. One view is that I am highly aggressive.
鲁健：有冒进的一面吗？ Lu Jian: Do you have an aggressive side?
雷军：是极度保守下的极度冒进。 Lei Jun: It is extreme aggressiveness within extreme conservatism.
鲁健：这听起来很矛盾。 Lu Jian: That sounds contradictory.
雷军：风险可控的时候，小米推进的速度极快；在我们觉得风险不可控的时候，我们非常小心。 Lei Jun: When risk is controllable, Xiaomi advances extremely quickly. When we think risk is uncontrollable, we are very cautious.
雷军：小米2010年创办，仅仅用了九年，2019年就进入了“世界500强”。小米的产品现在琳琅满目，我们认为大范围风险可控的时候，推进速度很快。所以面对今天的不确定性，我们会强调稳健为主。 Lei Jun: Xiaomi was founded in 2010 and entered the Fortune Global 500 in 2019, after only nine years. Xiaomi now offers a dazzling range of products. When we believe the overall risk is controllable, we move very quickly. Faced with today's uncertainty, however, we emphasize stability.
雷军：我们现在关心全球政治经济，恨不得连天气、哪里有灾难、疫情、汇率都要关心。反正每天要关心的事情，比以前多了好多倍。 Lei Jun: We now pay attention to global politics and economics, and almost wish we could track the weather, every disaster, the pandemic, and exchange rates. Every day, there are many times more things to watch than before.
鲁健：你觉得自己遭遇过的最大逆境是什么？ Lu Jian: What was the greatest adversity you have faced?
雷军：这三十年挫折还是蛮多的。我们第一次遭受挫折是1996年，当时遇到的困难就是“前有微软，后有盗版”。像金山这么厉害的一家公司也陷入了困境，差点关门，差点发不出工资。“盘古组件”的失败对我来说是个巨大的挫折，每天晚上焦虑得睡不着觉。 Lei Jun: There have been quite a few setbacks over these thirty years. Our first came in 1996, when we faced "Microsoft in front and piracy behind." Even a company as capable as Kingsoft fell into crisis. We nearly closed and almost failed to make payroll. The failure of Pangu Suite was an enormous setback for me, and anxiety kept me awake every night.
雷军：从那次挫折之后，我对现金流极其在意。我永远不想让自己第二次遇到发不出工资的时候。所以，只要是我负责的公司，我特别在乎现金积累。如果账面没有足够多的现金，绝对不买楼、不折腾，而是积累现金。从这个角度上讲，我们是非常非常保守的。 Lei Jun: After that setback, I became exceptionally attentive to cash flow. I never wanted to face a second occasion when I could not pay salaries. At every company for which I am responsible, I care greatly about accumulating cash. If there is not enough cash on the books, we absolutely do not buy buildings or launch extravagant ventures; we accumulate cash. From that perspective, we are extremely conservative.
鲁健：但是你太保守、太谨慎的话，也有可能会错过一些机会。那你觉得自己错失的最大机会是什么？ Lu Jian: But if you are too conservative and cautious, you may also miss opportunities. What do you think was the greatest opportunity you missed?
雷军：当我们在软件这个地里耕耘的时候，不知不觉进入了互联网时代，我们差点跟整个互联网时代擦肩而过。所以有时候不仅要埋头拉车，还要抬头看路。到了2000年，我们才办了卓越网，事实上基本相当于错过，因为我们只做了一个卓越网。后来2007年金山上市以后，我休整了一段时间，就在想我们到底哪里出错了。 Lei Jun: While we were cultivating our plot in software, the internet era arrived without our noticing, and we almost missed it entirely. Sometimes you must not only keep your head down and pull the cart, but also look up at the road. We did not launch Joyo.com until 2000. In practical terms, we had largely missed the opportunity because all we built was Joyo. After Kingsoft went public in 2007, I took some time to recover and reflected on where exactly we had gone wrong.
雷军：还是要顺势而为。其实每个大的成功，都是由时代决定的。可能一个创业者成功了，我们就把他封神，觉得他自己很牛，其实不是的，都是时代造就的。大成，都是时代造就的。所以后来我讲，当台风来了，连猪都会飞。作为创业者，你的任务是找到这样的“台风口”，这是成功最核心的因素。 Lei Jun: You have to move with the prevailing trend. Every major success is really determined by its era. When an entrepreneur succeeds, we may elevate that person into a legend and assume it was all due to personal greatness. It was not. The era made it possible. Great achievements are made by their times. That is why I later said that when a typhoon comes, even a pig can fly. An entrepreneur's task is to find such a "typhoon outlet." That is the most important factor in success.
雷军：当然，可能很多人说雷军是机会主义者。其实是说，你有很好的基础以后，找到“台风口”才是成功的关键。这是我在四十岁的时候，已经干了二十年以后总结的结论。 Lei Jun: Of course, many people may call Lei Jun an opportunist. What I mean is that after you have built a strong foundation, finding the "typhoon outlet" is the key to success. That was the conclusion I reached at forty, after working for twenty years.
鲁健：但你在四十岁生日的宴会上，聚了很多金山的朋友、同事。那个时候你还没想明白。到底是什么样的因素，或者说什么样的一个点，让你突然想明白要创办小米？ Lu Jian: At your fortieth birthday dinner, many friends and colleagues from Kingsoft gathered, but you still had not worked it out. What factor, or what particular moment, suddenly made you decide to found Xiaomi?
雷军：在我快四十岁的时候，有一次从睡梦中醒来，我就在想，我曾经想办一个伟大的公司，做一点伟大的事情，到了四十岁却觉得自己一事无成。 Lei Jun: As I approached forty, I once woke from a dream and thought about how I had wanted to build a great company and do something great. Yet at forty, I felt I had accomplished nothing.
鲁健：四十岁一事无成，手拿大笔现金，这叫一事无成？ Lu Jian: Accomplished nothing at forty while holding a large amount of cash? That counts as nothing?
雷军：对，这对一般人是没法理解的。所以我有一次讲完这个真话，被骂惨了。 Lei Jun: Yes. An ordinary person cannot understand that. Once, when I told this truth, people condemned me harshly.
雷军：其实不是，就看你的追求是什么。如果你从小就想做一件伟大的事业，到了四十岁却觉得自己不伟大，你内心的挫折感是很强很强的。所以我就在想，我还有没有勇气、还有没有决心重新干一回。 Lei Jun: But it depends on what you pursue. If you have wanted since childhood to build a great enterprise, then reach forty and feel that you have not become great, the frustration within you is extremely strong. I asked myself whether I still had the courage and resolve to start again.
雷军：很多人觉得小米是偶然，其实小米是经过精准筹划以后做的。你得努力让自己看到十年后。我经常跟他们说，你要到山顶，要去登顶，在顶上看整个世界，用上帝视角来看整个世界，然后你就知道未来的脉络是什么样子。 Lei Jun: Many people think Xiaomi happened by accident. In fact, Xiaomi was created after precise planning. You must work hard to see ten years into the future. I often tell them that you must reach the summit. You must climb to the top and look out over the entire world from there, viewing it from a God's-eye perspective. Then you will understand the shape of the future.
雷军（节目片段）：2020年对我们每个人来说，都是一个非常不容易的年份。全球面临很多挑战，这一场全球大变局深刻地影响着我们每一个人的生活。面对今天复杂的局面，未来何去何从？我们的答案就是行稳致远。我相信，智能生活将彻底影响我们每个人，智能制造将进一步助力中国品牌崛起。小米将成为一条蜿蜒奔涌的长河，流过全球每个人的幸福生活。 Lei Jun (archival clip): The year 2020 was extremely difficult for every one of us. The world faced many challenges, and this period of global upheaval profoundly affected each person's life. Faced with today's complex situation, where do we go in the future? Our answer is to move steadily so that we can go far. I believe smart living will thoroughly affect every one of us, while smart manufacturing will further support the rise of Chinese brands. Xiaomi will become a long, surging river, winding through the happier lives of people around the world.
鲁健：我记得你们曾经在这个园区入驻之前埋下了一个时间胶囊，对吧？这里边好像有一句话叫“永远相信美好的事情即将发生”。这也是你个人的理念？ Lu Jian: I remember that before moving into this campus, you buried a time capsule here, right? It seems to contain a sentence: "Always believe that something wonderful is about to happen." Is that also your personal philosophy?
雷军：这是小米的一句口号，就是对未来要充满希望，要自信、要乐观。我觉得这是小米文化里面很重要的内容，就是要乐观地看待明天、看待未来。 Lei Jun: It is one of Xiaomi's slogans. You must have hope for the future. You must be confident and optimistic. I think this is an important part of Xiaomi's culture: looking optimistically at tomorrow and at the future.
鲁健：十年以后的小米会是什么样？ Lu Jian: What will Xiaomi look like ten years from now?
雷军：说实话，今天的小米是十年前我预见到的。我觉得大家真正认知、认可小米，可能还需要十年时间。因为我们一方面要把东西做好，这就挺难的；还要把东西做便宜，就更难。把这么难的事情做完以后，大家还会觉得你便宜没好货。所以我们需要忍受很多困难、偏见和各种各样的诋毁，我们走在一条很崎岖的路上。 Lei Jun: Honestly, today's Xiaomi is what I foresaw ten years ago. I think it may take another ten years for people to truly know and recognize Xiaomi. On the one hand, we have to make products well, which is already difficult. We must also make them affordable, which is even harder. After we accomplish something so difficult, people may still assume that low prices mean poor quality. We therefore have to endure many difficulties, prejudices, and all kinds of slander. We are walking a very rugged road.
鲁健：你们埋下那个时间胶囊，你知道里边埋的是什么吗？ Lu Jian: Do you know what was put in that time capsule?
雷军：不知道。 Lei Jun: No.
鲁健：你也不知道啊？ Lu Jian: Even you do not know?
雷军：我们埋下了所有同事对二十年后小米的祝愿、梦想和目标。 Lei Jun: We buried the wishes, dreams, and goals of all our colleagues for Xiaomi twenty years in the future.
鲁健：2019年9月份埋的，得到2039年才能揭晓答案。小米会成为改变世界的那种公司吗？ Lu Jian: It was buried in September 2019, so the answer cannot be revealed until 2039. Will Xiaomi become the kind of company that changes the world?
雷军：小米已经在改变这个世界。十年后的今天，在小米和很多同行的共同努力下，我觉得整个国货正在全世界被认可、被尊重。 Lei Jun: Xiaomi is already changing the world. After ten years of joint effort by Xiaomi and many of our peers, I think Chinese products are now in the process of being recognized and respected around the world.
鲁健：我们经常说三十而立、四十不惑、五十知天命，所以每个阶段可能会有每个阶段的认识。2019年12月，你过了五十岁的生日。当时这个生日我听说办得挺简单，没有在家过，是在办公室办的，是吧？ Lu Jian: We often say that at thirty, a person stands firm; at forty, one is free of doubts; and at fifty, one knows destiny. Each stage may bring its own understanding. In December 2019, you celebrated your fiftieth birthday. I heard it was a simple occasion, held in the office rather than at home. Is that right?
雷军：反正到五十岁的时候是挺惶恐的，因为你觉得你没办法面对自己已经老了，真的没法面对，反正我没法面对。五十岁变老了。四十岁的时候你不会这么想，会觉得还有无限可能。 Lei Jun: Reaching fifty was quite frightening because you cannot face the fact that you are already old. You truly cannot face it. At least I could not. At fifty, you have grown old. At forty, you do not think that way. You feel that your possibilities are still unlimited.
雷军：我2019年最感慨的是，既然我们要把小米做成一个伟大的事业，我们怎么能想出一个合理的机制，把这个舞台变成更多人的舞台，更好地支持年轻人？因为我们得承认，我们五十岁了。 Lei Jun: My strongest realization in 2019 was this: if we want to make Xiaomi a great enterprise, how can we create a sensible mechanism that turns this platform into a platform for more people and better supports the young? We have to admit that we are fifty.
鲁健：你想过退休吗？ Lu Jian: Have you thought about retirement?
雷军：我觉得我在五十岁的时候考虑过这个问题。我刚办小米两三年的时候，企业家特别流行退休，有很多记者问我：“雷总，你啥时退休？”我就很委屈。我说：“你知道我是下岗再就业，好不容易有个工作干了两三年，你就问我啥时退休？”气得要死。 Lei Jun: I considered the question at fifty. When Xiaomi had been operating for only two or three years, retirement was especially fashionable among entrepreneurs. Many reporters asked me, "Mr. Lei, when will you retire?" I felt terribly wronged. I said, "Do you know that I was laid off and reemployed? I finally found a job and have worked for only two or three years, and you are already asking when I will retire?" It made me furious.
雷军：今天你问我这个问题，我考虑退休不退休只有一个前提，就是这个企业是不是需要我。是我需要这个企业，还是企业需要我？如果这个企业不需要我，就是我退休的时候。 Lei Jun: When you ask me that question today, there is only one condition that determines whether I consider retirement: does the company still need me? Do I need the company, or does the company need me? When the company no longer needs me, that will be the time for me to retire.
鲁健：五十知天命之年，你给自己许下的生日愿望是什么？ Lu Jian: At the age when one is said to know destiny, what birthday wish did you make?
雷军：做十件自己想做的事情，做一个计划清单。 Lei Jun: To do ten things I want to do, with a written plan.
鲁健：这清单列出来了吗？ Lu Jian: Have you made the list?
鲁健：已经列出来了。就不告诉我们了？ Lei Jun: Yes. Lu Jian: But you will not tell us?
雷军：免得没做到，不好意思。 Lei Jun: If I fail to do them, it would be embarrassing.
鲁健：用十年的时间做十件最想做的事情。能不能给我们透露哪怕一两个？ Lu Jian: Ten years to do the ten things you most want to do. Can you reveal even one or two?
雷军：我现在在重新学习怎么写程序。现在的程序语言完全不一样了，重新开始学，真的就从零开始学。十年后有机会，再跟你一条一条分享。 Lei Jun: I am learning how to write programs again. Today's programming languages are completely different. I have started learning again, truly from zero. Ten years from now, perhaps I will have the chance to share them with you one by one.
